Palestine Action

Prestwich_Blue said:
I'd say the defence is in a coma if that's the best it can do. It won't influence the government because the government will tend to stand behind an admittedly imperfect democracy than a bunch of Islamist terrorist murderers.
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I think this relates to a hobby horse of mine. Some issues are just too big for politicians/and possibly courts when you glance at the pressure being put on the international courts of justice, who can be corralled via lobbying or other nefarious means to represent the interests of powerful companies or exceedingly dodgy countries, some with pretty dreadful, far right governments. This issue should be directly asked of the electorate via the MPs referring to their constituency and placing the vote on our behalf as instructed. As it stands, dodgy countries only have to buy off a very small group of people in regards to the often peculiar direction of our foreign policy or issues such as this. They are too big for our current crop of low quality and vulnerable politicians.
 
philfodenswristsock said:
I think this relates to a hobby horse of mine. Some issues are just too big for politicians/and possibly courts when you glance at the pressure being put on the international courts of justice, who can be corralled via lobbying or other nefarious means to represent the interests of powerful companies or exceedingly dodgy countries, some with pretty dreadful, far right governments. This issue should be directly asked of the electorate via the MPs referring to their constituency and placing the vote on our behalf as instructed. As it stands, dodgy countries only have to buy off a very small group of people in regards to the often peculiar direction of our foreign policy or issues such as this. They are too big for our current crop of low quality and vulnerable politicians.
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What happens when the proposed elected have already made their name as a human rights lawyer?

Kier Starmer as a Human Rights lawyer turned up in Jamaica, said no to the death penalty - now look. Murder rate up! What happened to Jamaican life after that? Bring that down to a mirco - men are beating women again, more fartherless homes? more fighting in the streets? more organised crime? more trafficing? Ultimately this will be the case because proliferation of a give a fuck attitude - I'll not be hung.

Right or wrong on the death penalty - what Jamaican ever asked, voted or elected Kier Starmer to ever have a say in matters that affect their daily life?

Kier Starmer is not answerable to the mandate. I think Tony Blair is influencing policy - but ultimately, there are so many macro cards to be shuffling at once.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I'd say the defence is in a coma if that's the best it can do. It won't influence the government because the government will tend to stand behind an admittedly imperfect democracy than a bunch of Islamist terrorist murderers.
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Separate things. The government having such an entrenched view proves the defence case that the action was not to influence the government. And the defence has to influence a jury, most of whom (on current polling) will have a different view to that of the government. And the prosecution would surely be ill-advised to turn it into a comparison of atrocities.
 
Bruno37 said:
What happens when the proposed elected have already made their name as a human rights lawyer?

Kier Starmer as a Human Rights lawyer turned up in Jamaica, said no to the death penalty - now look. Murder rate up! What happened to Jamaican life after that? Bring that down to a mirco - men are beating women again, more fartherless homes? more fighting in the streets? more organised crime? more trafficing? Ultimately this will be the case because proliferation of a give a fuck attitude - I'll not be hung.

Right or wrong on the death penalty - what Jamaican ever asked, voted or elected Kier Starmer to ever have a say in matters that affect their daily life?

Kier Starmer is not answerable to the mandate. I think Tony Blair is influencing policy - but ultimately, there are so many macro cards to be shuffling at once.
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Trying to derail the thread?

"Can you give an example of a tenuous argument?"
 
Alvin-blue-qhd said:
What is truly worrying or frightening is not that people cannot protest, but that any protest they make is ineffective.
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That goes both ways though - Palestine Action or National Front if one is allowed a voice so must the other one be. I do not stand with either by the way but I will defend anyone’s right to free speech. The phrase hate speech has become somewhat overused in the present age. Speech is words. Words are debate. Words are what drives change. Counter arguments are what balances it.
 
Vic said:
Separate things. The government having such an entrenched view proves the defence case that the action was not to influence the government. And the defence has to influence a jury, most of whom (on current polling) will have a different view to that of the government. And the prosecution would surely be ill-advised to turn it into a comparison of atrocities.
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But the government was influenced as it banned some weapons sales to Israel. But it was public opinion, media pressure and pressure from inside the party itself that achieved that, not Palestine Action spraying red paint on banks.

Had they stuck to that tactic then they almost certainly wouldn't be facing proscription now. But like other extreme protest movements they went too far when they broke into Brize Norton. That definitely influenced the government but not in the way PA would have wanted.
 
Presumably their overarching case would be one of, the planes in question are being used for the support of Genocide, eventually the propagators of that crime will end up in court and they were trying to stop whats happening and what the Government seems persuaded to (who knows how!!!) keep supporting.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Not what the Terrorism Act says unfortunately.

The Terrorism Act 2000 defines terrorism, both in and outside of the UK, as the use or threat of one or more of the actions listed below, and where they are designed to influence the government, or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public. The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

The specific actions included are:
  • serious damage to property;
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I mean a lot is hinging on the meaning of the word ‘serious’ there. I suspect the people who wrote that were thinking of situations like IRA bombings where no one is hurt. But I dunno, perhaps they meant ‘needing a wash.’ A lot of terrorists have attacked politicians over the years in that case, leaving them with literally hundreds of pounds of eggy dry-cleaning bills. Hell, I’ve committed a fair bit of terrorism in my underpants over the years.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
I mean a lot is hinging on the meaning of the word ‘serious’ there. I suspect the people who wrote that were thinking of situations like IRA bombings where no one is hurt. But I dunno, perhaps they meant ‘needing a wash.’ A lot of terrorists have attacked politicians over the years in that case, leaving them with literally hundreds of pounds of eggy dry-cleaning bills. Hell, I’ve committed a fair bit of terrorism in my underpants over the years.
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how serious is serious?

 
Prestwich_Blue said:
So a group with 'Action' in its name doesn't like it when action is taken against them. Quite ironic really.
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Incredulous that a state army can commit genocide and breach international law and the UK government goes after people chucking paint amongst other non violent protests but provides logistical support to this state army
 
Protest to day probably on a large ish scale resulting in a few arrests probably not for supporting terrorism so what was the point in prescribing them ?
 
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