Palestine Action

[hilts]

Understood but they know full well they will be arrested if they clearly state and show they support PA.

The government isn’t going to back track on that.

I’m also slightly amused at the concern for 90 year olds and the disabled who not too long ago where rich old fuckers who don’t deserve the WFA and it was only right we tried to help them into meaningful work.

How a few short weeks can change the narrative eh ;-)

Well I'm well.in the clear on that point:-)

If you think about it if a govt decides they would like a group to effectively go away and not get support claiming they are a terrorist group puts people in a catch 22.

We have the right to protest but how do you protest on behalf of a group if you aren't even allowed to use their name?

At the end of the day we should be able to protest about a government decision.

Anyhow everyone has heard of Palenstine Action now and the Govt are squirming at the pictures of harmless folk being arrested. Well played Keir:-)

They've lost and were too dumb to realise it was going to happen. There are still a few people around willing to make themselves a nuisance and annoy the status quo.

I salute them.

 

[blueinsa]

The history of the Middle East conflict thread shows that people do care, and REALLY did care before there was EVER any mention of Palestine Action.

Agree so focus on that and not this group.

 

[Grassland Blue]

If I try to discuss changing your behaviour while hitting you repeatedly with a hammer, it is not really a negotiated settlement.

Would the hammer be the hostages in your scenario?

 

[Gobshiight]

It's almost as if these protesters wanted mass arrests of regular people to highlight how stupid and dangerous the proscription of PA is

 

[blueinsa]

I’m missing fuck all.

March in support of Palestine. Demand and end to what the IDF is doing. Demonstrate for an end to Netanyahu and his government. Highlight the suffering of the people of Gaza.

Do all that without mentioning PA and no one cares, especially the government and police and it makes the news still.

They can’t because many on the left just can’t help themselves and never will. It’s always more about them than it is any cause.

For once we slightly disagree.

Question is now, do I attack you as a poster over it or just move on?

Tough one mate ;-)

 

[KS55]

Agree so focus on that and not this group.

Have you never crossed the road on red? Have you never broken the speed limit? Have you never had a splif? Have you never had a drink after hours?
Which laws do you think should be religiously obeyed and which not?
Democracy and the rule of law are founded on consent. There is a lack of consent to the outlawing of PA. Why do you think the UN and a stream of human rights organisations oppose this law?

 

[Brewster's millions]

Supporting a Government has never involved blindly agreeing with everything they do. Personally, I support the current stance we are taking given the Israeli Govt’s actions. I do not support the proscribing of Palestine Action. It was premature and they should have been dealt with under existing law. Blind fucking Pew could have seen what would happen by proscribing them.

I’m not suggesting people should blindly support every policy of the party they voted for; typically people vote for the party that best represents their views, rather than perfectly representing them.

But I do find it a little peculiar that someone should spend so much time criticising government policy on an issue which apparently matters greatly to them, and then go out and about knocking on doors and asking them to support that particular government.

Asking people to support the status quo is unlikely to change the situation, I would suggest.

 

[blueinsa]

Jeez. Have you never crossed the road on red? Have you never broken the speed limit? Have you never had a splif? Have you never had a drink after hours?

Yep.

I’ve never publicly supported a proscribed terrorist group though.

 

[MCFC1993]

Prescribing PA as a terrorist group is a dreadful overreach by the government and I would guess influenced by those supporting what Israel are doing.

The people that broke into the air base should have been charged with criminal damage, trespassing, it didnt need what they did.

People saying they didnt have to wear or placard PA stuff are missing the point. They are forcing the government's hand, how long are we idly going to let genocide pass us by. They've already ruined Palestine for generations to come.

I think Labour have done some decent things since coming in, they calmed the storm. They also get stuff done without threatening to do stuff, less posturing. However, their recent movements of trying to appease the right is pointless and diminishing some of the good work. The people who lean extremely right want to watch this country burn on just about every social and political issue (ala America), they won't vote for you, so stop pandering. The decent people are only onside because they dont want a Reform government but most of them will jump if this continues.

 

[oldius]

Would the hammer be the hostages in your scenario?

Which ones?
I support the release of hostages.
I do not support the continuing genocide of the Palestinian people.
Given that this has been raging since 1948, I don't believe that the hostages represent the same size of hammer as the starvation of 2m people.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I’m missing fuck all.

March in support of Palestine. Demand and end to what the IDF is doing. Demonstrate for an end to Netanyahu and his government. Highlight the suffering of the people of Gaza.

Do all that without mentioning PA and no one cares, especially the government and police and it makes the news still.

They can’t because many on the left just can’t help themselves and never will. It’s always more about them than it is any cause.

This is correct. Whether the proscription of Palestine Action was right or wrong, there are many ways people can legitimately and legally protest about Gaza. And regardless of my views, I support their right to do that. Supporting a banned organisation isn't one of those ways however.

Yesterday was akin to someone driving their car and ramming a mobile speed camera van, resulting in a driving ban. Then driving past another, while serving that ban and flicking a v-sign at it.

And imagine if it was Yaxley-Lennon leading a march supporting a proscribed far right group. I strongly suspect the same people complaining about people being arrested en masse for supporting a banned group wouldn't be quite so vocal in their protests about mass arrests in this case.

 

[oldius]

This is correct. Whether the proscription of Palestine Action was right or wrong, there are many ways people can legitimately and legally protest about Gaza. And regardless of my views, I support their right to do that. Supporting a banned organisation isn't one of those ways however.

Yesterday was akin to someone driving their car and ramming a mobile speed camera van, resulting in a driving ban. Then driving past another, while serving that ban and flicking a v-sign at it.

And imagine if it was Yaxley-Lennon leading a march supporting a proscribed far right group. I strongly suspect the same people complaining about people being arrested en masse for supporting a banned group wouldn't be quite so vocal in their protests about mass arrests in this case.

I am sure we won't agree, but at the heart of this are Israel's continued actions in Gaza.
I would not support Yaxley-Lennon because he is not a humanitarian.
I do not support Israel's actions because they are not humanitarian.
I do support Palestine Action, in principle, because support for the people of Palestine is humanitarian.

 

[Grassland Blue]

Which ones?

You shouldn't need to ask and I shouldn't need to reply. However, for the sake of clarity, the hostages in the clutches of Hamas. (and that includes their own citizens.....)

 

[domalino]

Yep.

I’ve never publicly supported a proscribed terrorist group though.

Sounds like you’re just a bootlicker to be honest. Yvette Cooper banned them so they’re bad, if she hadn’t banned them they’d be fine.

What if they win their high court appeal? Does it become morally right to support them again? That would mean the government was wrong to ban them in the first place.

If your entire moral compass is decided by the Home Secretary that’s a very fickle place to live.

Or let’s consider how The interpretation of law that saw Palestinian Action banned would have also seen the suffragettes, National Union of Miners, Anti Apartheid groups and CND (the group from which the international symbol for peace is derived) listed as terrorist organisations?

Would your support for those causes have been decided by the Home Secretary as well?

If the only thing you use to decide if something is right or wrong is the governments stance on it then you are by definition an authoritarian.

 

[Craig]

Would the hammer be the hostages in your scenario?

How many Palestinian hostages are there? Obviously they’re called prisoners instead though

 

[oldius]

You shouldn't need to ask and I shouldn't need to reply. However, for the sake of clarity, the hostages in the clutches of Hamas. (and that includes their own citizens.....)

I do need to ask, because there are thousands of Palestinians in the hands of the IDF and in prison for...

Nevertheless, I have added to my original post. I support the release of hostages, but I do not think that the hostages are the driver of the genocide.

 

[Grassland Blue]

I do need to ask, because there are thousands of Palestinians in the hands of the IDF and imprisoned.

Nevertheless, I have added to my original post. I support the release of hostages, but I do not think that the hostages are the driver of the genocide.

No one said it was - but it is certainly part of the problem.
Hamas will not negotiate, not one iota.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I am sure we won't agree, but at the heart of this are Israel's continued actions in Gaza.
I would not support Yaxley-Lennon because he is not a humanitarian.
I do not support Israel's actions because they are not humanitarian.
I do support Palestine Action, in principle, because support for the people of Palestine is humanitarian.

You've missed the point spectacularly.

 

[Brewster's millions]

Sounds like you’re just a bootlicker to be honest. Yvette Cooper banned them so they’re bad, if she hadn’t banned them they’d be fine.

What if they win their high court appeal? Does it become morally right to support them again? That would mean the government was wrong to ban them in the first place.

If your entire moral compass is decided by the Home Secretary that’s a very fickle place to live.

Or let’s consider how The interpretation of law that saw Palestinian Action banned would have also seen the suffragettes, National Union of Miners, Anti Apartheid groups and CND (the group from which the international symbol for peace is derived) listed as terrorist organisations?

Would your support for those causes have been decided by the Home Secretary as well?

If the only thing you use to decide if something is right or wrong is the governments stance on it then you are by definition an authoritarian.

What a daft comment.

Have you been arrested yet for supporting Palestine Action yet?

If you haven’t, does that make you a bootlicker as well?

What other laws do you routinely ignore? Do you have a skinful and drive home? Silly.

 

[oldius]

No one said it was - but it is certainly part of the problem.
Hamas will not negotiate, not one iota

It is clear that this is the genocide of the Palestinian people for the purpose of acquiring land, and has been for generations. The sooner we stop excusing the occupation and slaughter the better, IMO.