Paris 2024 Olympics Thread - 11th August (pg 430)

[Fiftyyearsandcounting]

I can understand the female commentators excitement at the rowing but she is beginning to irritate me were her near hysterical barkings out. In a shrill, dramatic voice... "Can they do it, Will they do it, It's now or never, They want win, There's 8 men in a boat rowing for their lives?"

 

[Kippax Street 1880]

My girlfriend said exactly the same thing last night!

Hang on, you aren’t my girlfriend are you?…

I've been rumbled! Make me a brew!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I've been rumbled! Make me a brew!

You’ve been rumbled as she would never call it a brew! :-)

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Your spouting nonsense

Are you denying that somebody writes Male or Female on your birth certificate? Bizarre hill to die on but whatever.

 

[SebastianBlue]

There are ZERO people assigned thier sex at birth , all eggs have X chromosomes the sperm has either an X or Y chromosome so for the vast majority are either XX or XY . Some have extra Y or X very few just have X & no Y (XO)

Nearly all people born in the developed world are assigned a sex at birth and it almost never has anything to do with their individual genetic profile (as that is almost never tested at birth). The only criterion used to determine the sex to be placed on someone’s birth certificate for 99% of individuals is whether they have a vagina or a penis.

The point @SkyBlueFlux was making is that sex (and, by extension, the entirely social construct of “gender”) is far more complex than that, with people who possess vaginas and/or penises exhibiting collections of characteristics (genetic in origin or otherwise) that do not neatly fit in to either societies normally narrow “male” or “female” constructs, or the very limited and simplistic nature of sex and gender that most have been taught in school (which itself causes many of the problems already discussed in the thread).

FWIW, there are 6 “common” sex karyotypes, with many more less common ones based on permutational possession of X and Y chromosomes, with scientists still debating whether it is accurate to define humans as only have two sexes based on possession of XY or XX combinations.

I think this is an interesting primer on the debate for anyone interested.

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[MCFC1993]

Womens windsurfing final about to start, guaranteed a medal. Based on the first 16 races Emma Wilson is a class apart. Hopefully she can get the gold.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

The Archery QF, France v Indonesia. They always score 9 or 10 with each arrow, occasionally an 8. The Indonesian needed 8 or above to win but hit a 5. Shows the pressure they are under. I like this sport.

 

[SebastianBlue]

The Archery QF, France v Indonesia. They always score 9 or 10 with each arrow, occasionally an 8. The Indonesian needed 8 or above to win but hit a 5. Shows the pressure they are under. I like this sport.

Also, as I said earlier in the thread, one of a handful of actual practical skill competitions in the Olympics, which makes it even more interesting to me.

 

[MCFC1993]

Bronze in the windsurfing, almost unfair given how many races she's won, made the wrong call in the final though.

 

[BringBackSwales]

The windsurfing is a joke format. British girl absolutely dominated this event, then has to go into a final where they all start even. Fucking daft

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Nearly all people born in the developed world are assigned a sex at birth and it almost never has anything to do with their individual genetic profile (as that is almost never tested at birth). The only criterion used to determine the sex to be placed on someone’s birth certificate for 99% of individuals is whether they have a vagina or a penis.

The point @SkyBlueFlux was making is that sex (and, by extension, the entirely social construct of “gender”) is far more complex than that, with people who possess vaginas and/or penises exhibiting collections of characteristics (genetic in origin or otherwise) that do not neatly fit in to either societies normally narrow “male” or “female” constructs, or the very limited and simplistic nature of sex and gender that most have been taught in school (which itself causes many of the problems already discussed in the thread).

FWIW, there are 6 “common” sex karyotypes, with many more less common ones based on permutational possession of X and Y chromosomes, with scientists still debating whether it is accurate to define humans as only have two sexes based on possession of XY or XX combinations.

I think this is an interesting primer on the debate for anyone interested.

Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic

Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male

www.scientificamerican.com

I appreciate you trying. I gave up on attempting discussions about this on here long ago. Not referencing any of the posters on this thread specifically, but this place has a definite transphobic tilt which goes mostly unchallenged, and I find it disappointing given I think BM is usually progressive and tolerant on most fronts. It's not the (bad) attempts at humour or people's genuine opinions that are the problem, but I see plenty of comments which just come across as mean-spirited and nasty.

To get it back on topic - this boxer is from Algeria, an orthodox and strict Islamic country. There is absolutely no way she could even consider transitioning genders even if she wanted to. She has just lived her life in what she might see as a super traditional way, she was born as a woman and she's competing as a woman. Clearly, she has some kind of gender ambiguity that she may have been completely unaware of growing up, and may give her a physiological advantage. And quite justifiably, competitions have guidelines in place to deal with this. But the IOC said she's being allowed to compete and that's not her fault. So my point is, is there really any need for people to be spitting bile, calling her a man and ridiculing her? It just feels wrong, doesn't it? If people don't think that feels wrong and can't have some empathy for the hate currently being thrown her way, then I really question their moral fortitude.

It's not a lot to ask for people to recognise that this is a nuanced and complicated issue and can't be boiled down into simplistic dogmas. I just find it endlessly frustrating that I've been making this argument about sex/gender being more nuanced than genitalia for years. Now we have this example which showcases that perfectly, and rather than that being some epiphany to make people go "oh well look, maybe this is complicated after all", they are just finding a new way to project hate.

Love - don't hate - always choose empathy and seek to understand. That's literally all I want, and it doesn't feel like a lot to ask for.

 

[jazzy]

Are you denying that somebody writes Male or Female on your birth certificate? Bizarre hill to die on but whatever.

Writing the sex on a birth certificate is not assigning anything as the sex of the child is determined at the moment of conception .

 

[Xhavenjoe]

The windsurfing is a joke format. British girl absolutely dominated this event, then has to go into a final where they all start even. Fucking daft

Was just watching the tennis.mens doubles.
One set all and was preparing for a 3rd deciding set.
Went out to make a cuppa and when I returned the third set was actually a tie break, 1st to 10 points.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Writing the sex on a birth certificate is not assigning anything as the sex of the child is determined at the moment of conception .

You've gotten totally caught up in a semantic argument of zero value.

Of course the sex of the child is determined at conception - when did I say otherwise? I'm clearly not talking about the biological process. I'm not talking about the sex being "assigned by god" or some shit. I'm quite literally talking about the administrative process of how we assign people's sex at birth - which is how lots of sporting competitions determine eligibility to compete. Here, let me fix it for you.

I said:

The whole discussion is entirely theoretical anyway. Because there are zero people assigned as male at birth competing in female events.

Instead, change that to:

The whole discussion is entirely theoretical anyway. Because there are zero people who have "Male" on their birth certificates competing in female events.

 

[Eccles Blue]

Was just watching the tennis.mens doubles.
One set all and was preparing for a 3rd deciding set.
Went out to make a cuppa and when I returned the third set was actually a tie break, 1st to 10 points.

That’s ridiculous surely? :-)

 

[Xhavenjoe]

That’s ridiculous surely? :-)

1st set was 6 all and went to a tie break
2nd set was 6 all and went to a tie break
No 3rd defining set, just went straight to a tie break where Australia won 10 - 8 against USA.
I can only assume they are doing this from a scheduling viewpoint.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Tiny but oh so mighty

 

[Eccles Blue]

1st set was 6 all and went to a tie break
2nd set was 6 all and went to a tie break
No 3rd defining set, just went straight to a tie break where Australia won 10 - 8 against USA.
I can only assume they are doing this from a scheduling viewpoint.

Ahh mmm maybe I suppose. It just sounded wrong somehow. Thanks for the explanation. I’ve just got the Olympics on in the background as I do some housework so I miss somethings. :-)

 

[SebastianBlue]

Tiny but oh so mighty

To be fair to Biles, the baseball player catching her throw likely deviates from the mean height, weight, and build of a male American as much as she does from a female American.

 

[SebastianBlue]

Commentators currently (rightly, in my opinion) taking the piss out of cyclists still using 150 year old tech of safety pins to attach number placards to themselves whilst absolutely everything else in the sport as advanced exponentially.