Pensions and Pensioners

[mosssideblue]

Needed a bespoke thread as it is taking over others

 

[mosssideblue]

Yes but 1 pensioners are living longer than previous generation and costing more. My generation is now probably split into a group of people with mental and physical health issues obesity who won’t live long and a group who are probably wealthy who will live even longer than ever wellbeing is in vogue going to the gym is a hobbie. Is it fair for the first group to pay for pensioners when they might not see pension age ?

And all those in this current generation are suffering more than previous generations with cost of living etc

And that has fuck all to do with current pensioners

 

[mackenzie]

Maybe a Mod can move some of the comments in the other threads to here?

 

[WRicko]

And that has fuck all to do with current pensioners

Of course it does things have to be equitable for all generations you cannot have current pensioners benefiting from poorer future generations

 

[mosssideblue]

Of course it does things have to be equitable for all generations you cannot have current pensioners benefiting from poorer future generations

Don’t be so ridiculous. What exactly do you want pensioners to do?

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Of course it does things have to be equitable for all generations you cannot have current pensioners benefiting from poorer future generations

We already have the lowest state pension in the Western world .... surely to god you dont want it to get any lower?

 

[Saddleworth2]

Folk miss the fact that people have been paying pension contributions through their national insurance contributions for decades. Are they not entitled to some of that money back in their old age?

 

[mackenzie]

We also have the issue that if changes are made now to the State Pension then that will adversely effect the same generation that are struggling now. Unless its applied to current pensioners too, which hardly seems fair.
It's all horribly complex and makes you realise why governments have simply raised the state pension age instead.

However, I can't remember the exact ratio but I think I once read it was 7:1 workers v pensioners when it was first brought in. It's now 4:1 I think.

It obviously needs an overhaul but penalising those have paid in all their lives, over those that don't (illness and carers excepted) isn't the answer.

 

[mackenzie]

I am 62 and have a combined total yearly income of 23 grand (part time work and an occ pen). I pay 720 per month rent, full council tax etc. Thankfully I enjoy good heath and am able to use public transport as I don't drive. I live on my own.
I don't go mad, I don't have takeaways, I don't go to beauty salons for tanning, botox or whatever. I have one holiday a year, enjoy a cig and a drink and a good book. I still have some spare cash at the end of the month because I was raised to live within my means.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Folk miss the fact that people have been paying pension contributions through their national insurance contributions for decades. Are they not entitled to some of that money back in their old age?

Some of that money back? If you’d earned £30000 for 40 years from age 25 you’d pay in £56,000. At the current pension, assuming it never rose, you’d take that back every 4 and a half years.
A much better system would be NI of £1 a week and rolling the rest into income tax. That would have the benefit of richer pensioners paying in and no upper limit for the very wealthy. You could move the Income tax threshold in line with the state pension so, if that was all you had to live on, you’d pay no tax.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Some of that money back? If you’d earned £30000 for 40 years from age 25 you’d pay in £56,000. At the current pension, assuming it never rose, you’d take that back every 4 and a half years.
A much better system would be NI of £1 a week and rolling the rest into income tax. That would have the benefit of richer pensioners paying in and no upper limit for the very wealthy. You could move the Income tax threshold in line with the state pension so, if that was all you had to live on, you’d pay no tax.

With pension age going up and life expectancy falling you may be fortunate to get 4 years mate. It’s already one of the lowest state pensions in Europe.

 

[Scottyboi]

I think it all stems from selling off council housing and not replacing them, and then a big push for landlordism.

If young people had access to cheap rent like social housing they could either put more in their work place pensions or save up a deposit for their own house.

And those pensioners who never had chance to buy a house whilst they were still fairly priced compared to average wages are now stuck with a crap state pension and high rent eating into it.

 

[Blue Maverick]

The only way to solve this issue is to say from 1 April 2027 there wil be no state pension for anyone born who turns 18 after this date, reduce their NI contributions to counter this but they must provide for their own future. No way should you pay into a system only to be means tested at an old age. Public sector pensions had this done 20 years ago and they only gave 10 years notice.

 

[We've got Guardiola]

We also have the issue that if changes are made now to the State Pension then that will adversely effect the same generation that are struggling now. Unless its applied to current pensioners too, which hardly seems fair.
It's all horribly complex and makes you realise why governments have simply raised the state pension age instead.

However, I can't remember the exact ratio but I think I once read it was 7:1 workers v pensioners when it was first brought in. It's now 4:1 I think.

It obviously needs an overhaul but penalising those have paid in all their lives, over those that don't (illness and carers excepted) isn't the answer.

For most people under 40 their last day of work before retirement will involve an ambulance.

 

[SilverFox2]

With pension age going up and life expectancy falling you may be fortunate to get 4 years mate. It’s already one of the lowest state pensions in Europe.

Pensioners pay a lot of income tax.
Most other benefits are seemingly not taxable.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Don’t be so ridiculous. What exactly do you want pensioners to do?

Die, stop the boats, wipe out the pensioners and then when there’s no one else to blame maybe people will look at the super rich and how they are taking the piss. Nobody needs more than £1 billion to live a life and their offspring as well.

 

[Blue Maverick]

For most people under 40 their last day of work before retirement will involve an ambulance.

Best order it now it might arrive by then

 

[mackenzie]

For most people under 40 their last day of work before retirement will involve an ambulance.

Thats literally what happened to my great grandfather back in 1951 when he was 74 (still working in a cotton mill). He died in Crumpsall hospital the next day.

I think most people recognise that something needs to change re the pension system and it needs to be radical. But it also needs to be fair.

 

[heslops barnet]

I am 62 and have a combined total yearly income of 23 grand (part time work and an occ pen). I pay 720 per month rent, full council tax etc. Thankfully I enjoy good heath and am able to use public transport as I don't drive. I live on my own.
I don't go mad, I don't have takeaways, I don't go to beauty salons for tanning, botox or whatever. I have one holiday a year, enjoy a cig and a drink and a good book. I still have some spare cash at the end of the month because I was raised to live within my means.

Sensible, you don’t belong in this discussion

 

[Ste68]

Some of that money back? If you’d earned £30000 for 40 years from age 25 you’d pay in £56,000. At the current pension, assuming it never rose, you’d take that back every 4 and a half years.
A much better system would be NI of £1 a week and rolling the rest into income tax. That would have the benefit of richer pensioners paying in and no upper limit for the very wealthy. You could move the Income tax threshold in line with the state pension so, if that was all you had to live on, you’d pay no tax.

Agree splitting out National insurance from general taxation when it all lands in the same pot nationally is really a bit of smoke and mirrors but allows a little political flexibility for governments to spin masking the true tax burden and maintains the idea or perception of a contributory principle being in play for pensions and other benefits. Truth the tax system needs an overhaul along with pensions. Inevitably I think will mean a form of means testing and minimum income guarantee set at a fair level that’s sustainable. Think we have a full state pension, if you get it all that is above average living costs but does not leave much for anything else (think we were in the top performers in the European pension index just). There are very few generous state pensions anywhere in Europe apart from Norway and Luxembourg - most aim to just cover living costs and no more.