Peter Swales

[Nightmare Walking]

As a 13 year old who had just started going unattended so to speak, the Swales out campaign was really exciting. I was not old enough to know any better and did not understand the true ramifications of what was going on really, but I remember running round from the old Kippax to the corner of Main stand and North stand. Everyone would congregate there and spill their vitriol.
Does anyone remember that mad priest who somehow managed to be the kind of ring leader and face of the campaign? I remember having Swales out and Forward with Franny badges, sure they were given out by the Mirror.

The way Swales quit with some blues jumping into his mums nursing home was bang out of order.

I will say this though, after all the fanfare. Franny Lee was just as bad. Would not mind but he was a football man.

 

[petrusha]

The way Swales quit with some blues jumping into his mums nursing home was bang out of order.

Ah. an example of fake news well before the phrase ever gained currency. This was a LIE spread by the Swales camp to discredit protestors. The matron of the nursing home in question said she was completely unaware of the alleged incident that was widely reported at the time, and if Central Library in town still has its microfiche archive, you can go down there and confirm it.

Still, job done by the vile John Maddock. Blues continue to believe this falsehood nearly 30 years on.

I will say this though, after all the fanfare. Franny Lee was just as bad. Would not mind but he was a football man.

​

No he fucking wasn't. That piece of shit Swales left the club in such a dire financial state that the decline was almost inevitable without a vast injection of cash that Lee was unable to deliver (through my job, I saw the disclosure files presented to Lee's legal team when he was buying into the club and, believe me, they'd shock you). Lee made many mistakes for which he can justifiably be criticised and, ironically given his background, some of the most telling related to the club's footballing operations.

If we could have hung on without getting relegated from the PL for another couple of years, we may just about have clung on and emerged from the financial crisis. Lee's errors of judgement, most notably appointing Alan Ball, contributed to our taking the drop. But "just as bad as Swales"? No fucking way.

 

[Gordyola]

Ah. an example of fake news well before the phrase ever gained currency. This was a LIE spread by the Swales camp to discredit protestors. The matron of the nursing home in question said she was completely unaware of the alleged incident that was widely reported at the time, and if Central Library in town still has its microfiche archive, you can go down there and confirm it.

Still, job done by the vile John Maddock. Blues continue to believe this falsehood nearly 30 years on.

​

No he fucking wasn't. That piece of shit Swales left the club in such a dire financial state that the decline was almost inevitable without a vast injection of cash that Lee was unable to deliver (through my job, I saw the disclosure files presented to Lee's legal team when he was buying into the club and, believe me, they'd shock you). Lee made many mistakes for which he can justifiably be criticised and, ironically given his background, some of the most telling related to the club's footballing operations.

If we could have hung on without getting relegated from the PL for another couple of years, we may just about have clung on and emerged from the financial crisis. Lee's errors of judgement, most notably appointing Alan Ball, contributed to our taking the drop. But "just as bad as Swales"? No fucking way.

As always Petrusha you've nailed it

On the Ball appointment Franny was let down at the last moment by his chosen man I know he was talking with Beckenbauer, who was a mate, not sure if it was him or he was helping Franny, hed tipped off about Rosler. Horton was told by Franny that he wanted to bring in his "own man" but if he couldn't get him hed stick with him, Horton thought sod that and pitched for the Huddesfield job.

 

[petrusha]

As always Petrusha you've nailed it

On the Ball appointment Franny was let down at the last moment by his chosen man I know he was talking with Beckenbauer, who was a mate, not sure if it was him or he was helping Franny, hed tipped off about Rosler. Horton was told by Franny that he wanted to bring in his "own man" but if he couldn't get him hed stick with him, Horton thought sod that and pitched for the Huddesfield job.

I don't think you can blame Horton for forcing the board's hand. He'd spent almost a season and a half under Lee with newspapers claiming he was two games from the sack, and the strongest backing Lee would offer was a wishy-washy statement that the board hadn't considered sacking the manager. Contrast that with the statement when Ball had two points from the first 11 games the following season - a variation on Swales's, "If Ron Saunders goes, so do I."

I believe that Lee's great mate and best contact in Germany was the ex-German international midfielder Rainer Bonhof, who at the time was an assistant coach with the German national side. There was talk of Lee's hope being that Bonhof would persuade Beckenbauer, his former international team-mate, to join City (he'd stepped down from coaching Bayern in the summer of 1994) with Bonhof coming as assistant but it never happened.

However, I'm pretty sure that the man whom Lee was going to appoint in the summer of 1995 was Brian Kidd. He asked United to release him from his contract and they refused, but he wouldn't walk out to force the move through. The same happened a year or two later when Kidd agreed to replace Joe Royle at Everton. Finally when Blackburn called, he did insist on leaving, which is why Ferguson got the hump with him.

Had Lee landed Kidd, it would have been seen as a masterstroke. However, given Kidd's performance as a number one at Ewood Park, there must be every chance that he'd have been as bad at City as Ball was. Personally, and I said this at the time, I preferred both Martin O'Neill and Mick McCarthy as candidates for the City job in the summer of 1995. Lee, though, went for Ball, despite his distinctly underwhelming track record.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

Always treated me with the respect I deserve...

 

[Nightmare Walking]

Ah. an example of fake news well before the phrase ever gained currency. This was a LIE spread by the Swales camp to discredit protestors. The matron of the nursing home in question said she was completely unaware of the alleged incident that was widely reported at the time, and if Central Library in town still has its microfiche archive, you can go down there and confirm it.

Still, job done by the vile John Maddock. Blues continue to believe this falsehood nearly 30 years on.

​

No he fucking wasn't. That piece of shit Swales left the club in such a dire financial state that the decline was almost inevitable without a vast injection of cash that Lee was unable to deliver (through my job, I saw the disclosure files presented to Lee's legal team when he was buying into the club and, believe me, they'd shock you). Lee made many mistakes for which he can justifiably be criticised and, ironically given his background, some of the most telling related to the club's footballing operations.

If we could have hung on without getting relegated from the PL for another couple of years, we may just about have clung on and emerged from the financial crisis. Lee's errors of judgement, most notably appointing Alan Ball, contributed to our taking the drop. But "just as bad as Swales"? No fucking way.

In my defence mate I was 13 years olda, did not know what propaganda was really and believed everything I read in the Evening News.

As for Franny Lee, he might not have been ultimately responsible for the financial position but he was responsible for terrible footballing decisions, which resulted in our hurdlind down the divisions. He went from absolute hero to people wanting him out in a couple of years. If it was not for his previous legacy he would have gone earlier. From a footballing perspective we were in a far worse position when Franny left than when Swales left. For a football man, Franny made some poor decisions and after all the fanfare from his incarnation, he presided over an even bigger dip in fortunes than Swales ever did.

Now how much of that dip was Swalea ultimately responsible for in regards to the finances? I can't comment on that, I was just a kid really and would have to do some reading up on what actually happened. Yet I firmly believe that if Franny had not sacked Horton, we would have stayed up, the Premier League money would have rolled in and out future would have been a lot different.

Strange really as we probably would not have been in the position we are in today if not for our struggles. Our financial position and the fact we were languishing in the prem under Frank is what made us the viable proposition for ADUG.

If I am a bit out with my memory please don't bite my head as I know people like to win on the internet. I was a kid, we are going back nearly 30 years now and I am just going off my memory.

I need to read the Gary James books and now seems the ideal time considering the situation.

Who got the ball rolling in regards to the Etihad (COMS)? Was the Franny or Bernstein?

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

It's clear that Swales was a massively controversial, and very unpopular chairman for much of his tenure. He never "owned" the club and financed his schemes largely through loans rather then investment, though he didn't get all that he'd lent the club when he left. On the other hand he pocketed a very handsome profit indeed when he sold his shares and was certainly not a financial martyr to the club. He was "blue through and through" but he was obsessed with United and supported such schemes as buying Rodney Marsh to make City the crowd pleasing, glamour club of the League. In fact, the ideas he supported took City from undisputed supremacy in Manchester to the second division and financial ruin. My own opinion is that he wanted everyone to think of Peter Swales whenever City were mentioned, he wasn't going to share the stage with anyone and this led to sacking any manager who looked likely to be a rival or, who didn't contribute to the glorious image of the chairman. In the end he simply didn't have the qualities necessary to run - especially so dictatorially - a big football club. Far from City basking in the reflected glory of the chairman, they were ruined for a generation and it took the takeover of 2008 and the top class running of the club to fulfill ambitions Peter Swales would certainly have understood, but which we probably not achieved with the flashiness he would have wanted.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Very interesting thread, this. Thanks, all. I was out of the country in those years, so I missed much of what you're talking about.
It's clear from the ITV documentary that Big Joe (Corrigan) hated Allison by the end of his second tenure. You can see it in his face.

 

[Citizen Green]

I don't think you can blame Horton for forcing the board's hand. He'd spent almost a season and a half under Lee with newspapers claiming he was two games from the sack, and the strongest backing Lee would offer was a wishy-washy statement that the board hadn't considered sacking the manager. Contrast that with the statement when Ball had two points from the first 11 games the following season - a variation on Swales's, "If Ron Saunders goes, so do I."

I believe that Lee's great mate and best contact in Germany was the ex-German international midfielder Rainer Bonhof, who at the time was an assistant coach with the German national side. There was talk of Lee's hope being that Bonhof would persuade Beckenbauer, his former international team-mate, to join City (he'd stepped down from coaching Bayern in the summer of 1994) with Bonhof coming as assistant but it never happened.

However, I'm pretty sure that the man whom Lee was going to appoint in the summer of 1995 was Brian Kidd. He asked United to release him from his contract and they refused, but he wouldn't walk out to force the move through. The same happened a year or two later when Kidd agreed to replace Joe Royle at Everton. Finally when Blackburn called, he did insist on leaving, which is why Ferguson got the hump with him.

Had Lee landed Kidd, it would have been seen as a masterstroke. However, given Kidd's performance as a number one at Ewood Park, there must be every chance that he'd have been as bad at City as Ball was. Personally, and I said this at the time, I preferred both Martin O'Neill and Mick McCarthy as candidates for the City job in the summer of 1995. Lee, though, went for Ball, despite his distinctly underwhelming track record.

Weren't we linked with George Graham quite frequently at this time?.

Think he would of been an excellent appointment then.

 

[solley attwell]

the bit where they are interviewing John Bond is just cringe-worthy, the rest of the board couldn't have been more sycophantic

Absolutely. Who is the the guy who after interviewing bond says he 'couldn't make up his mind but would go along with whatever the chairman wanted. This interview took 15 mins and they wanted to give him the job. Christ if I go for an interview for job I'm told they will ring me next week