PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[eastmanc]

Don't panic mate, those are isolated and incredibly rare incidents across multiple countries.

BDO aren't 1 company in essence, they have offices across the globe that act as completely separate businesses under the same brand name so an error by BDO Spain has no bearing on BDO UK, USA etc. In fact, each firm will also have separate teams specialising in different types of audit as well from FS Audit to Pharmaceuticals and everything in between.

Every single accounting firm on the planet including the Big 4 will have instances of getting things wrong or making mistakes, it's very rare though, BDO included so don't read anything into those headlines at all

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[mrbelfry]

CAS relied very heavily on witness statements but on the flip UEFAs expert witness was never afforded access to the full records . I can’t remember the quote but it was something like he had seen the tip-off the ice berg but not what went on below.

CAS weren’t in a position to test the witness statements because UEFA didnt have evidence to back up the emails although when the accounts were particularly made available the amounts and timing of payments was in accord with the second email.

People are reading too much into the CAS judgment. For 1 it’s in accord with Swiss Law and 2 it, ad it’s something I keep repeating UEFA didn’t pursue to the end the fact that some documents were never disclosed they in effect gave up on that approach had they focused on that it’s highly likely that CAS would have come to the same conclusion as UEFA.

I just can’t see how City will even remotely be able to defend full non disclosure( if that’s what happened) when there was a HC ruling on the matter and indeed a PL arbitration panel has likewise confirmed contractual obligations

When the PL and City disclose in full the evidence they will rely on at the tribunal other than the hearing where that evidence will be examined it’s unlikely that even if it goes to a further hearing that either party will be allowed to reduce any further info.

Think you're wrong here boss. CAS said if we had disclosed to UEFA what we did go CAS then the investigation wouldn't have got past the first chamber. We stopped cooperation with UEFA cos there were lots of leaks particularly from Tariq Panja and Rory Smith (I think). We even asked for the case to be thrown out because of this. No doubt there is a mountain of paper work to work through but that doesn't imply guilt

 

[Bez]

The charges are vast 130? But according to @projectriver & @Prestwich_Blue those charges fall under 4/5 headings. So why is it taking so long? Lawyers will want it to drag on for financial gain. City will want each claim contested and then wait for the league to respond.

So what is it? Trumped up charges with no substance or 4/5 main charges? The irrefutable evidence should be able to squash the majority of claims levied against us.

4 years and over a hundred charges! City must have been keeping a record every time the premier asked for more and specifically what area they wanted to constest. City say we have nothing further to give you as it doesn’t exist but we have irrefutable proof that all was above board.

The amount of time this is going to take would led me to believe that it’s about defamation and fuck all else. The financial charges are a side show.

Almost like, the premier got sick of the non co operation and thought fuck you. We will charge you will everything.

I agree. The number of charges from the PL is due to sheer frustration with City. The PL wanted the world on a stick and City no doubt took advice and said we don't need to give you that information. The PL were hoping for the world on a stick so they could do a fishing expedition. They got so pissed off so they threw the kitchen sink at City and said 'Fuck you!' in a really loud growly voice followed by maniacal laughter...'that'll teach those nouveau riche upstarts' etc....followed by more maniacal laughter...

 

[Maly]

The charges are vast 130? But according to @projectriver & @Prestwich_Blue those charges fall under 4/5 headings. So why is it taking so long? Lawyers will want it to drag on for financial gain. City will want each claim contested and then wait for the league to respond.

So what is it? Trumped up charges with no substance or 4/5 main charges? The irrefutable evidence should be able to squash the majority of claims levied against us.

4 years and over a hundred charges! City must have been keeping a record every time the premier asked for more and specifically what area they wanted to constest. City say we have nothing further to give you as it doesn’t exist but we have irrefutable proof that all was above board.

The amount of time this is going to take would led me to believe that it’s about defamation and fuck all else. The financial charges are a side show.

Almost like, the premier got sick of the non co operation and thought fuck you. We will charge you will everything.

This may help you bud

https://swissramble.substack.com/p/manchester-city-charged-by-the-premier

 

[Shads]

I think that as a subsection of a profession, other than possibly surgeons, KCs will have a higher proportion of sociopaths than any other. Plenty are sound, many are not.

I guess it is rooted in being at the top of a profession that requires industrial levels of confidence and self-belief where winning and losing are a direct consequence of your professional output. That landscape is bound to bring forth more than its fair share of twats.

Reckon our KC is a bigger and better twat than theirs…

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Reckon our KC is a bigger and better twat than theirs…

The biggest and the best, hopefully!

 

[chris85mcfc]

I thought Sox was US entities only? And other countries that adopted similar like Japan, but not UK?

There is a UKSox expected to land within the next year, which brings the UK more in line with USSox

I just imagined that there would be something that tied CFG to the US through having entities in the US, but that was just an assumption which someone else may be able to clarify

 

[Protein Junkie]

Dropped a major bollock this morning. Scrolling Facebook with a pre work coffee and inevitably loads of articles on this subject.
And then the fuckers drag me in. Most of the anti City comments are beyond farcical and just can’t be left alone.
The Key is not to reply and that’s where I’ve fucked up.

 

[bluenova]

Don't panic mate, those are isolated and incredibly rare incidents across multiple countries.

BDO aren't 1 company in essence, they have offices across the globe that act as completely separate businesses under the same brand name so an error by BDO Spain has no bearing on BDO UK, USA etc. In fact, each firm will also have separate teams specialising in different types of audit as well from FS Audit to Pharmaceuticals and everything in between.

Every single accounting firm on the planet including the Big 4 will have instances of getting things wrong or making mistakes, it's very rare though, BDO included so don't read anything into those headlines at all

Indeed - Almost every single big financial scandal that we've heard of would involve one of the Big 4 as auditors.

Then it usually seems to be one of the others stepping in as administrator when things go wrong.

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

Interesting take. I am the opposite. Going into CAS I was very apprehensive because I had the feeling that there was a groundswell of opinion that regardless of the rights and wrongs of what we'd done, we needed to be banned simply because of the Football Leaks revelations. Everything was 'fresh' in that moment and the time lapse between UEFA's announcement and the CAS case was months.

Things are hugely different this time round and the major difference is time. We're looking at a process that is going to take upwards of 18 months, so by the time we're at something approaching a decision from the panel, we'll be well into 2025 if not 2026. Glazers will be gone. FSG will be gone. The landscape in the league will be totally different. The power dynamics also totally different.

You also have to look at the charges themselves. Whilst UEFA pointedly accused City of inflating sponsorships, which in many respects COULD have been argued just with the Football Leaks documents, PL charges are of false accounting. FL even on their face, can only 'prove' things from the relevant years of the leaked documents. The PL is relying on a discovery process where City will hand over documents which I presume they think will make us more guilty. That's naive beyond some belief. The PL have to prove false accounting all by themselves. The discovery process won't help them IMO.

I've seen the commentary around a potential whistleblower, and it feels remarkably far fetched to me. A whistleblower, at best can testify to what they saw, or were asked to do. But that is one person. On the other side City will be able to wheel out dozens of people, and dozens of documents and filings which attest to the veracity of their accounts. It is an enormous ask of any 'independent panel' to start accusing high ranking board members and executives all of lying based on the word of what would surely be a disgruntled employee. But in any case, I think it is unlikely that a whistleblower even exists, because if they'd had one, this wouldn't have taken 4 years to get here, and it would be all over the media that the league had a whistleblower.

Finally, there is the actual reasoning for why we've been charged now and in the manner that we have. My personal opinion is that the charges are the punishment. The idea here is simply to inflict maximum reputational damage onto the club. I reckon after 4 years they've realised "we'll never be able to prove this case, but if we bin it we'll forever be panned for not trying" so they've gone with the big long charge sheet knowing that it is now the panel's job to find us innocent but the smears will stick in the meantime.

The politicking at play is on another level to anything we've seen since Abu Dhabi came in.

This is a very interesting post and I suspect your opinion "that the charges are the punishment" may well hit a very large nail right on the head.

It is now over a week since the news of the charges broke. I presume that the club has ben given a detailed breakdown of the charges but the process is confidential and behind closed doors so I presume we have been told all we're going to be told. Were it not for PB et al I would have the vaguest of vague ideas of what they are, and this for a process lasting 18 months at a conservative guess. Press speculation would be out of control and we would have no evidence with which to refute the wilder (or even the more moderate) claims. The views of the public would be set in stone long before our acquittal. For the cartel it would be a very respectable second prize and very hard for any independent regulator to bring such virtuous defenders of the integrity of football to heel. Especially in the name of a club which, YET AGAIN, refuses to cooperate and "gets off" on a technicality.