How can a man really risk his own life and so many others like that, such a selfish mistake and you feel bad saying it because he's dead but that pilot was a real dick.
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Plane crash - Chapecoense FC - Awarded Copa Sudamericana - first game back today. P25
- Thread starter kupest
- Start date
west didsblue
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The variation in fuel prices is not really relevant. The two factors that add significant cost to a refuelling stop are the landing fees and the additional fuel used to taxi, take off and climb back to cruising altitude. The fuel used per mile during climb may be several times as much as when in cruise. Overall a fuel stop would significantly cut the profit made on a trip. The price of a charter should include the cost of a planned refuelling stop but an unscrupulous operator could increase his profit significantly by avoiding that refuelling stop if he thinks he can get away with it, or he might not price it in to undercut a competitor.Just curious how the industry works,I assume you pay to land at an airport ,then can fuel prices vary from airport to airport,is their completion amongst fuel firms at each airport ?
Is there any other fees involved in landing at an airport.
Does it cost a lot more to stop off as opposed to going direct .
Just intrested how it all works
cleavers
Moderator
That seems to be the case here, given the part owner of the company was the flight captain too.The fuel used per mile during climb may be several times as much as when in cruise. Overall a fuel stop would significantly cut the profit made on a trip. The price of a charter should include the cost of a planned refuelling stop but an unscrupulous operator could increase his profit significantly by avoiding that refuelling stop if he thinks he can get away with it, or he might not price it in to undercut a competitor.
What a sad view on life that profit is more important than even common sense, even to the point he's dead himself, but its quite possible had they not been asked to hold, this thread wouldn't exist, and 71 people would have been a cup final, rather than in morgue, obviously by pure luck, rather than good maths.
yeseye
Well-Known Member
Talk about a conflict of interest!That seems to be the case here, given the part owner of the company was the flight captain too.
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cleavers
Moderator
It is, but you'd think he'd put his own safety above profit, but it seems he didn't even do that, never mind all the other 70 victims, I'm not including him.Talk about a conflict of interest!
west didsblue
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If he had declared a fuel emergency when initially asked to hold, he'd have been allowed straight in but he clearly didn't want the subsequent investigation, fine and possible jail so he risked it until it was too late. Even then he had sufficient altitude to glide to the runway but managed to fuck that up completely by poor piloting. Had he survived, I doubt it would have been for long once everyone knew what he'd done.That seems to be the case here, given the part owner of the company was the flight captain too.
What a sad view on life that profit is more important than even common sense, even to the point he's dead himself, but its quite possible had they not been asked to hold, this thread wouldn't exist, and 71 people would have been a cup final, rather than in morgue, obviously by pure luck, rather than good maths.
cleavers
Moderator
We don't know that until the boxes are examined, he f**ked up no doubt about it, and he was cutting corners, humans do, but other factors could have come into play in any glide, weather particularly, there was heavy rain/thunderstorms in the area, so severe icing perhaps, a storm downdraught even, could have added to the issues they had already created by not refuelling.Even then he had sufficient altitude to glide to the runway but managed to fuck that up completely by poor piloting.
At the end of the day he was clearly incompetent on this flight, with an eye on costs, but I doubt he wanted to kill himself and 70 others either, so I'm happy to see the full report come out, and see if there were any further extenuating circumstances.
west didsblue
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We don't know for sure but it would appear that he had put the landing gear down which adds drag and reduces gliding range and there is speculation that he was aiming for a navigation aid thinking it was the start of the runway. As you say, we need to wait for the investigation but I predict poor piloting will be as much a factor as poor planning and criminal decision making.We don't know that until the boxes are examined, he f**ked up no doubt about it, and he was cutting corners, humans do, but other factors could have come into play in any glide, weather particularly, there was heavy rain/thunderstorms in the area, so severe icing perhaps, a storm downdraught even, could have added to the issues they had already created by not refuelling.
At the end of the day he was clearly incompetent on this flight, with an eye on costs, but I doubt he wanted to kill himself and 70 others either, so I'm happy to see the full report come out, and see if there were any further extenuating circumstances.
cleavers
Moderator
I expect you will be correct, it will be the main or possibly sole fault, but I do think its not impossible that the weather may play a minor part.As you say, we need to wait for the investigation but I predict poor piloting will be as much a factor as poor planning and criminal decision making.
From what I've seen, mostly news reports and the flight radar graphs, but also with a little insight due to my job, they were holding at an altitude where there may have been considerable icing. It appears to be close to the freezing level which is the worst possible altitude (usually between zero and minus 5 C).
I speculate here as I don't know how the aircraft anti ice system works, and whether it needs the electronics to be working, which may have already failed due to the fuel situation, but that may have caused there being no anti icing available, and in the tropics there can be very severe airframe icing close to the freezing level in the right conditions.
Even if weather is involved in some way, the fuel situation is the critical event, not having any is clearly a bad move, but if icing is involved even in a minor part, then in clear air they might still just have got to the airport.
Certainly had they declared a full emergency early enough, they would have had much more chance of making it.
mrtwiceaseason
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Thanks for the reply ,have you any idea £ wise how much not refueling may have saved assume in the £000,s ?The variation in fuel prices is not really relevant. The two factors that add significant cost to a refuelling stop are the landing fees and the additional fuel used to taxi, take off and climb back to cruising altitude. The fuel used per mile during climb may be several times as much as when in cruise. Overall a fuel stop would significantly cut the profit made on a trip. The price of a charter should include the cost of a planned refuelling stop but an unscrupulous operator could increase his profit significantly by avoiding that refuelling stop if he thinks he can get away with it, or he might not price it in to undercut a competitor.
Just curious for how much saving the pilot was prepared to gamble all those lives for,if that's what he's provern to have done