Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[cibaman]

Anyway - whats happening with DUP and the Conservatives and the goat skin to write the speech on?

May should announce that there will be no deal with DUP, no bribes, and the Tory's will attempt to serve as a minority government. It would be the best thing she could do to stop the rot, for her personally and her party.

 

[Vic]

Left wing rags - read the below.

http://www.conservativehome.com/loc...ents-of-boris-johnson-as-mayor-of-london.html

Some of those coming back to bite. The Boris bus, removing pedestrian railings, cuts to fire service, and a new academy that still "requires improvement".

 

[worsleyweb]

Some of those coming back to bite. The Boris bus, removing pedestrian railings, cuts to fire service, and a new academy that still "requires improvement".

Think it supports my comments he did a bloody good job as Mayor - don't suppose he was supposed to know about the new form of terror attack driving onto pavements, i am sure many academies in the country still require improvement and i flicked again through the list and cant see a reference to fire service. I just think it is easy to jump on the bandwagon and criticise him. I maintain i believe he would be a great pm.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

May should announce that there will be no deal with DUP, no bribes, and the Tory's will attempt to serve as a minority government. It would be the best thing she could do to stop the rot, for her personally and her party.

Well said.

 

[inbetween]

May should announce that there will be no deal with DUP, no bribes, and the Tory's will attempt to serve as a minority government. It would be the best thing she could do to stop the rot, for her personally and her party.

There is no such thing as a minority government, you cannot govern if you aren't able to govern..

What is the point in proposing legislation only for Labour to vote it down, what is the point in Labour proposing legislation only for the Tories to vote it down. The end result is always zero and what is the point in not having a functional government able to do anything at perhaps the most pivotal point in our recent history.

The DUP were democratically elected and their offering will be on confidence meaning they won't have any ability to chuck in stuff into the agenda.

 

[CitizenTID]

The whole country. Capitalism has been proven to be best for our economy, deliver more jobs and opportunities. The entitlement of the millennium generation these days honestly scares me. The country cannot afford everyone to go to university for free and not get a job until they are 22. We have an aged population, a housing crisis, security and immigration issues and god help us if Corbyn and his cronies got in. Our schools and hospitals are buckling under the pressure of mass immigration. It would get ten times worse under him.

I agree Capitalism is best, but it needs to be controlled/have checks & balances to mitigate corruption - such as that that led to the horror at Glenfell Tower - with awareness of human tendencies.

Personally, voting Labour this time around is an absolute no brainer to me but I absolutely agree with what you say about uni. First of all, everyone (normal working people) gets a tuition loan and a maintenance loan to go to uni - it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, a poor kid and a rich kid on that course now have the same job prospects so I never understand the moaning about poor not affording uni fees. One thing I'll say is, maintenance loans probably need to offer more as many do struggle on it (this doesn't mean no fees, just needs higher loaning) - whether the student learns to manage money or fritters it on booze every weekend is their decision though. Under current rules, if you never earn past the threshold, you never pay it back (which might be a flawed idea in itself I'm not sure, but that's another matter). Perhaps there is a problem in that practically all decent jobs want a graduate now because it's the social norm, but we need to bring experienced workers vs. graduates back into balance. We need home-grown "low-skilled" workers because continual immigration is not sustainable and adds problems we more than struggle to manage - there is also the consideration of national identity and if you want to become United States MK II, or continue British culture that isn't from a memory like native american. I do not agree it would be worse under Corbyn at all though - Labour set out responsible managed migration until skills shortages are reduced (i.e. train up people here). The Tories on the other hand have failed to hit a very easy and basic target (of non-EU immigration to 100k) that they keep repeating like it's a new thing, for 7 years - there is no suggestion of willingness to achieve this yet they've created a myth that they are right wing leaning (they are con artists on multiple fronts imo).

I think the social pressure to go to uni has devalued degrees and tried to push square blocks in round holes - it needs sensibly rebalancing but on all matter of subjects, people act on ideals rather than practicalities nowadays.

(Don't want to get into Labour vs. Tory, just wanted to elaborate on what I agree with but needed some party context)

 

[mcfc1632]

as you say implimented by the major government, therefore started going wrong before Labour got in, not because labour got in. Labour didnt sort out the Tory mess and in fact carried it on, as did the subsequent Tory government.

Not much enthusiasm to take part in these 'post-debacle' threads - given the main point of being engaged (Brexit) as been fucked up due to May's (and her advisors) incompetence and delusions of how to run a campaign, but will just pick you up on this point.

PFI might have been 'introduced' by the Conservatives but it was Labour in the period that you have been discussing with Worsley and commented on by Manctheknife, that enforced it across the Public Sector across the funding option to be used - even when there were generally better funding options available.

This is not something that is a discussion point - it is just a simple fact, the consequence of which has been many-long-term contracts that are committed and limit the areas where savings can be made.

This in turn has seen an impact to front-line services, but of course it is convenient to blame those that were administering the medicine rather than those that caused the illness.

 

[worsleyweb]

I agree Capitalism is best, but it needs to be controlled/have checks & balances to mitigate corruption - such as that that led to the horror at Glenfell Tower - with awareness of human tendencies.

Personally, voting Labour this time around is an absolute no brainer to me but I absolutely agree with what you say about uni. First of all, everyone (normal working people) gets a tuition loan and a maintenance loan to go to uni - it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, a poor kid and a rich kid on that course now have the same job prospects so I never understand the moaning about poor not affording uni fees. One thing I'll say is, maintenance loans probably need to offer more as many do struggle on it (this doesn't mean no fees, just needs higher loaning) - whether the student learns to manage money or fritters it on booze every weekend is their decision though. Under current rules, if you never earn past the threshold, you never pay it back (which might be a flawed idea in itself I'm not sure, but that's another matter). Perhaps there is a problem in that practically all decent jobs want a graduate now because it's the social norm, but we need to bring experienced workers vs. graduates back into balance. We need home-grown "low-skilled" workers because continual immigration is not sustainable and adds problems we more than struggle to manage - there is also the consideration of national identity and if you want to become United States MK II, or continue British culture that isn't from a memory like native american. I do not agree it would be worse under Corbyn at all though - Labour set out responsible managed migration until skills shortages are reduced (i.e. train up people here). The Tories on the other hand have failed to hit a very easy and basic target (of non-EU immigration to 100k) that they keep repeating like it's a new thing, for 7 years - there is no suggestion of willingness to achieve this yet they've created a myth that they are right wing leaning (they are con artists on multiple fronts imo).

I think the social pressure to go to uni has devalued degrees and tried to push square blocks in round holes - it needs sensibly rebalancing but on all matter of subjects, people act on ideals rather than practicalities nowadays.

(Don't want to get into Labour vs. Tory, just wanted to elaborate on what I agree with but needed some party context)

Great post mate.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Think it supports my comments he did a bloody good job as Mayor - don't suppose he was supposed to know about the new form of terror attack driving onto pavements, i am sure many academies in the country still require improvement and i flicked again through the list and cant see a reference to fire service. I just think it is easy to jump on the bandwagon and criticise him. I maintain i believe he would be a great pm.

Want to know about the fire service, 10 stations cut, 40 engines 500 jobs lost, attendance times up and a re classification of fire deaths so it appeared they are down, that's why fire fighters who attended the tower fire were there 9 hours after their shift finished and had to return to shift 3 hours later as they didn't have enough relief crews.

 

[pirate]

Not much enthusiasm to take part in these 'post-debacle' threads - given the main point of being engaged (Brexit) as been fucked up due to May's (and her advisors) incompetence and delusions of how to run a campaign, but will just pick you up on this point.

PFI might have been 'introduced' by the Conservatives but it was Labour in the period that you have been discussing with Worsley and commented on by Manctheknife, that enforced it across the Public Sector across the funding option to be used - even when there were generally better funding options available.

This is not something that is a discussion point - it is just a simple fact, the consequence of which has been many-long-term contracts that are committed and limit the areas where savings can be made.

This in turn has seen an impact to front-line services, but of course it is convenient to blame those that were administering the medicine rather than those that caused the illness.

to borrow your analogy, only blaming those that are administering the medicine, because its not so much medicine as snake oil.