Post Match Thread: Election 2017

[blueinsa]

NHS fucked
poor are poorer
middle class are poorer
national defence compromised from lack of funds
social care fucked
national debt at the highest level since the 1960's
higher education no longer accessible by the poor

didnt need any data though - just obvious

Agree completely mate.

 

[pirate]

Thanks for the definition of compromise....I never knew.

sorry that came across as much more patronising than i meant it too

 

[cleavers]

sorry that came across as much more patronising than i meant it too

Correct, so I won't be bothering again.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

NHS fucked
poor are poorer
middle class are poorer
national defence compromised from lack of funds
social care fucked
national debt at the highest level since the 1960's
higher education no longer accessible by the poor

didnt need any data though - just obvious

why isn't higher education accessible by the poor? Unless you think having to pay it back if you're earning a nice salary and by paying it back, paying back a pittance thus having plenty of money to save/spend as you wish is somehow inaccessible?

Just another selfish soul who expects everyone else to pay for what they want in life, because god forbid they have to actually earn/invest/spend their own money.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

why isn't higher education accessible by the poor? Unless you think having to pay it back if you're earning a nice salary and by paying it back, paying back a pittance thus having plenty of money to save/spend as you wish is somehow inaccessible?

Just another selfish soul who expects everyone else to pay for what they want in life, because god forbid they have to actually earn/invest/spend their own money.

Agree completely mate

 

[BobKowalski]

why isn't higher education accessible by the poor? Unless you think having to pay it back if you're earning a nice salary and by paying it back, paying back a pittance thus having plenty of money to save/spend as you wish is somehow inaccessible?

Just another selfish soul who expects everyone else to pay for what they want in life, because god forbid they have to actually earn/invest/spend their own money.

Think of higher education as an investment. Just as you can get grants for investment in business. Or tax breaks for setting up companies in certain areas of the country to boost the local economy. I mean God forbid these companies should invest/spend their own money.

 

[worsleyweb]

Agree completely mate.[/QUOTE]

You want your cake and eat it - if we had carried on spending would the debt be less? Most of those points are subjective. Anyone who thinks things are worse now than 2008 is utterly deluded.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Think of higher education as an investment. Just as you can get grants for investment in business. Or tax breaks for setting up companies in certain areas of the country to boost the local economy. I mean God forbid these companies should invest/spend their own money.

And yes that's exactly how the people who choose to go to university should see it. Invest in yourself and pay for it yourself because you will get the rewards. Don't expect everyone else to pay for you!!

 

[Damocles]

And yes that's exactly how the people who choose to go to university should see it. Invest in yourself and pay for it yourself because you will get the rewards. Don't expect everyone else to pay for you!!

Interesting that the more educated you are, the more likely to vote Labour and the less educated you are, the more likely you are to vote Tory. Notice that the highest Labour voting bloc were those that have finished University and not those IN University. I'd argue that many people who went to Uni understand the social and economic good that it brings to the country as a whole and are willing to sacrifice a small amount of their taxes to ensure access to higher education is as low cost and free as possible.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Think of higher education as an investment. Just as you can get grants for investment in business. Or tax breaks for setting up companies in certain areas of the country to boost the local economy. I mean God forbid these companies should invest/spend their own money.

it is an investment, one for which the individual should pay for if they want a better future, just like the current and previous generation have had to with little hardship.

Any other format is just a generational bias tax on those who were born at the wrong time and is completely discriminatory against that generation in the workforce, who will have to pay for both the generation before and generations after to have a nice time without earning it and for free.

 

[worsleyweb]

Interesting that the more educated you are, the more likely to vote Labour and the less educated you are, the more likely you are to vote Tory. Notice that the highest Labour voting bloc were those that have finished University and not those IN University. I'd argue that many people who went to Uni understand the social and economic good that it brings to the country as a whole and are willing to sacrifice a small amount of their taxes to ensure access to higher education is as low cost and free as possible.

With all due respect that is nonsense and I will explain why later. In fact i will quickly do now while I wait for my chips in the chippy. People with student debt were bribed to vote labour and more younger people go to university these days doing shit degrees and they are more likely to vote labour than the wiser older generation - I don't need any google or graph to tell me that.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Interesting that the more educated you are, the more likely to vote Labour and the less educated you are, the more likely you are to vote Tory. Notice that the highest Labour voting bloc were those that have finished University and not those IN University. I'd argue that many people who went to Uni understand the social and economic good that it brings to the country as a whole and are willing to sacrifice a small amount of their taxes to ensure access to higher education is as low cost and free as possible.

and I fit your profile and voted Tory. A small amount of tax does go on education - my education, just as everyone's should. It will not be "a small amount of tax" if my generation has to keep paying for triple locks AND every future sprogs education. Christ, already give up 30%, going to be little point working if you lot get your way. What's the point?

 

[pirate]

why isn't higher education by the poor? Unless you think having to pay it back if you're earning a nice salary and by paying it back, paying back a pittance thus having plenty of money to save/spend as you wish is somehow inaccessible?

Just another selfish soul who expects everyone else to pay for what they want in life, because god forbid they have to actually earn/invest/spend their own money.

you dont think a debt of £40,000 will put off a poor student?
yes you currently only have to pay it off after you are earning a decent salary.
But who decides what that level is? the government.
Is an 18 year old going to trust the governments for the next 45 years not to fuck them over.
In their lifetime they have seen governments go from free university education to a £3000 per year fee to a £9000 per year fee. From a reduced interest rate for the lifetime of the loan, to a reduced rate for the duration of the course and marketrate thereafter. From grants and bursaries for the poorest student to loans for the poorest students. Then they have seen repayment bands for loans not keeping pace with inflation. They have seen promises made that student loans will not affect their credit scores not being kept, so it will affect their ability to buy small items like houses and cars in the future.

the selfish pricks wanting an education but not wanting to give an open ended commitment to pay future governments whatever the fuck the government feels like.

i see your point. i am so convinced.

 

[Damocles]

With all due respect that is nonsense and I will explain why later. In fact i will quickly do now while I wait for my chips in the chippy. People with student debt were bribed to vote labour - I don't need any google or graph to tell me that.

I mean....you're arguing with statistics?

And it's always been the same trend whether education was free or not.

 

[Damocles]

and I fit your profile and voted Tory. A small amount of tax does go on education - my education, just as everyone's should. It will not be "a small amount of tax" if my generation has to keep paying for triple locks AND every future sprogs education. Christ, already give up 30%, going to be little point working if you lot get your way. What's the point?

Who is "your generation"?

Was is one of the several generations who got their education free but now demand that their children pay for their education by any chance?

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

you dont think a debt of £40,000 will put off a poor student?
yes you currently only have to pay it off after you are earning a decent salary.
But who decides what that level is? the government.
Is an 18 year old going to trust the governments for the next 45 years not to fuck them over.
In their lifetime they have seen governments go from free university education to a £3000 per year fee to a £9000 per year fee. From a reduced interest rate for the lifetime of the loan, to a reduced rate for the duration of the course and marketrate thereafter. From grants and bursaries for the poorest student to loans for the poorest students. Then they have seen repayment bands for loans not keeping pace with inflation. They have seen promises made that student loans will not affect their credit scores not being kept, so it will affect their ability to buy small items like houses and cars in the future.

the selfish pricks wanting an education but not wanting to give an open ended commitment to pay future governments whatever the fuck the government feels like.

i see your point. i am so convinced.

No problem if the Labour manifesto protected it to ensure it was on similar terms to before the Tories started messing with the bold, but they pay back their tuition fees themselves if they can afford to. Labour could have done a million things that would have been genuinely caring and compassionate, but decided to bribe youngsters and buy votes with an answer that is utterly selfish, and yes, poor people should not be put off by a debt they don't have to pay back unless they're no longer poor, self-explanatory.

Who is "your generation"?

Was is one of the several generations who got their education free but now demand that their children pay for their education by any chance?

no it's the one who had to pay for it because your generation decided you could have it free, but we couldn't. Then the generations above also decided they deserved a triple lock on their pensions whilst we have far worse pension schemes and have to work longer, and the supposed man of the people from the generations above decided the generations below could have their uni free. Wonder who pays for it all? Oh yeah, my generation.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Who is "your generation"?

Was is one of the several generations who got their education free but now demand that their children pay for their education by any chance?

There are better things to spend money on at the moment. When his generation went to university it was only a few now everyone goes practically. Blair wanted everyone to go to uni,

The student loan scheme is the best way of dealing with an impossible situation. There is a finite amount of money you know?

You only start paying it back when you earn over a threshold and it's only a small amount. Btw I had student loans and have paid them back. It's manageable.

 

[inchy14]

but whilst I do want sensible fiscal controls, it is undeniable that the public sector is crumbling just as bad as the roads. I am all for balancing the books but manchester is filthy , I have to pay extra now to get the bin men to pick my green bin. Manchester may be booming but its with private money, the parks are awful and the streets full of shit.

the nhs is stretched, police cut , schools struggling - now part of the issue is a population explosion so extra supply and scarce resources but it cannot continue like this.

there needs to be a loosening of the purse strings. if you are a public sector worker a 1% pay cap whilst inflation is at 3% is a pay decrease.

and by loosening the purse strings I don't mean increasing the benefits to people , I mean paying people better who work, sorting the roads out, other public services , nhs and schools and get a shit load of bleach and clean the bloody streets up and plant flowers and make the place look nice again!! and all those mainly men sleeping rough in the street can we find out why and sort them out too - get them somewhere to live and get them started back in life they need help not pity.

How much shite do you put in your green bin? Mine gets collected every week if needed yet I only put it out every 3 weeks or do as it's never full. As for the parks, Heaton is relatively spotless as is Bogert o'clough.

 

[Damocles]

no it's the one who had to pay for it because your generation decided you could have it free, but we couldn't. Then the generations above also decided they deserved a triple lock on their pensions whilst we have far worse pension schemes and have to work longer, and the supposed man of the people from the generations above decided the generations below could have their uni free. Wonder who pays for it all? Oh yeah, my generation.

I have 3 degree or above qualifications and paid for them myself either out of pocket or through student loans which have been repaid so I'm not sure exactly who you think you're talking to when "I decided I could have it free".

You only start paying it back when you earn over a threshold and it's only a small amount. Btw I had student loans and have paid them back. It's manageable.

Because when you went it was manageable. Now kids can walk out of Uni with potentially £100,000 of debt.

Blair wanted everyone to go to uni,

Yes, Tony Blair wanted the populace to be educated which leads to more innovation, more high rate taxpayers and less people stuck in a cycle of poverty inside ghettos. How stupid of him. Shouldn't let the serfs read.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

How much shite do you put in your green bin? Mine gets collected every week if needed yet I only put it out every 3 weeks or do as it's never full. As for the parks, Heaton is relatively spotless as is Bogert o'clough.

You have to pay in Trafford now. Come and check it, it varies from week to week.

Used to play golf at Heaton park as a kid, god it's a tough course.