Post Match Thread: Election 2017

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The perfect fumble said:
Andy Burnham could not win his party's nomination. So what you're actually saying is you can't vote for Labour. Corbyn is not an aberration, he's won two Labour leadership elections in two years by stonking majorities, the membership want him and more importantly they want what he stands for, he's not going away, Corbyn's message is Labour's message.

Assuming the Tories hold it together and there's not another election in the next couple of years. Corbyn, who is 68, might hand the reigns over, if he can secure the nomination of another MP from the left of the party, the membership would almost certainly support that, that's the best you're going to get.

But Andy Burnham or another New Labour clone? Forget it, that's history.
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He's won two leadership elections against no-hopers... opponents carefully selected by the party for this exact reason... the only thing missing was a "sponsored by Len McCluskey" T Shirt
 
The perfect fumble said:
I agree, the left has too much invested in Corbyn at the moment.
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I have this strange feeling that both the main parties will go into the next election with leaders who will divide the country (as if it already isn't), and we'll end up with another hung parliament. Both parties will then select young leaders and go again.
 
Bluemanc100 said:
He's won two leadership elections against no-hopers... opponents carefully selected by the party for this exact reason... the only thing missing was a "sponsored by Len McCluskey" T Shirt
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If you think the 2015 leadership election was engineered, you must also believe the PLP no confidence vote in Corbyn a year later that triggered the second leadership election was as well and that the relentless attacks on Corbyn are somehow orchestrated, with all this leading back to Len McClusky. If you believe all that then you probably believe Corbyn shot Kennedy while eating a veggie burger on the grassy knoll.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
You might have misunderstood my point. I was saying that the Tories will struggle to get passed the more extreme elements of their manifesto. You seem to have agreed to an extent by saying the Tories will need to moderate their message. Do you agree with me or not?
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I don't think it is a case of moderating the message, the message was completely wrong and they basically went to town on the wrong areas where they were too arrogant, even putting at risk their core pensioner vote. Couple this with May's total mismanagement of dealing with the media aspect and it isn't a surprise seats were overturned by Corbyn.

I agree they need to moderate the message more now but mainly because they haven't got a majority. I still think though May would of won a landslide had they not produced such a negative manifesto and campaign in the final weeks. It was akin to the Brexit Remain campaign, all about why you shouldn't vote for Corbyn as opposed to why you should vote Conservative.

For me I struggled to vote Tory but at no point did I ever consider voting Labour because I think certain individuals in their prospective cabinet are total lunatics. That is probably quite reflective for many.
 
inbetween said:
I don't think it is a case of moderating the message, the message was completely wrong and they basically went to town on the wrong areas where they were too arrogant, even putting at risk their core pensioner vote. Couple this with May's total mismanagement of dealing with the media aspect and it isn't a surprise seats were overturned by Corbyn.

I agree they need to moderate the message more now but mainly because they haven't got a majority. I still think though May would of won a landslide had they not produced such a negative manifesto and campaign in the final weeks. It was akin to the Brexit Remain campaign, all about why you shouldn't vote for Corbyn as opposed to why you should vote Conservative.

For me I struggled to vote Tory but at no point did I ever consider voting Labour because I think certain individuals in their prospective cabinet are total lunatics.
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OK thanks. Yes the Dementia Tax was a big own goal against core support. I am glad in a way that no party has a clear majority because some policies could have been reckless.

One area where the Government appears to be listening is that Ministers have hinted at an end to the real term pay cuts for emergency service workers. The Tories are following Corbyn's lead on this.

May has received a lot of criticism and some of this has been deserved (some has been over the top). I don't think the Tories have got anyone better to offer as the PM at the moment.
 
Tim of the Oak said:
OK thanks. Yes the Dementia Tax was a big own goal against core support. I am glad in a way that no party has a clear majority because some policies could have been reckless.

One area where the Government appears to be listening is that Ministers have hinted at an end to the real term pay cuts for emergency service workers. The Tories are following Corbyn's lead on this.

May has received a lot of criticism and some of this has been deserved (some has been over the top). I don't think the Tories have got anyone better to offer as the PM at the moment.
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That really is quite an indictment of our political system. Some would also level the same charge at Labour.
 
inbetween said:
I don't think it is a case of moderating the message, the message was completely wrong and they basically went to town on the wrong areas where they were too arrogant, even putting at risk their core pensioner vote. Couple this with May's total mismanagement of dealing with the media aspect and it isn't a surprise seats were overturned by Corbyn.

I agree they need to moderate the message more now but mainly because they haven't got a majority. I still think though May would of won a landslide had they not produced such a negative manifesto and campaign in the final weeks. It was akin to the Brexit Remain campaign, all about why you shouldn't vote for Corbyn as opposed to why you should vote Conservative.

For me I struggled to vote Tory but at no point did I ever consider voting Labour because I think certain individuals in their prospective cabinet are total lunatics. That is probably quite reflective for many.
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Would have
 
Gabriel said:
That really is quite an indictment of our political system. Some would also level the same charge at Labour.
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Besides Corbyn, I an only see David Milliband as a serious contender to be the PM at a future election and he isn't even an MP at the moment.

I rate them both higher than Bojo and Gove btw.
 
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Uncle Wally One Ball said:
Would have
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It's quite depressing to see the number of people that use the term "would of" in place of the term"would have". It is quite an indictment of the literacy of our nation when people use words and phrases without having an awareness of their actual meaning.
I invite some clever dick to pick out a mistake in my post thereby ironically proving what I am saying is correct.
 
Gabriel said:
Theresa May planning to run a two-year parliament with no Queen's Speech in 2018. At the same time, we can expect Conservative infighting to intensify over Brexit (Hammond on The Andrew Marr Show today) in the coming weeks, and there is already the threat of a stalking horse.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...heresa-may-ministers-threaten-stalking-horse/
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If the Eurosceptics try to oust May if she waters down brexit, they might find that brexit doesn't happen at all. Some will argue that a watered down brexit isn't any better than no brexit. But a soft brexit can be hardened over time whereas if the referendum result is over turned by a 2nd referendum, that would be it for the forseeable future.

Before the election, I had taken the view that a 2nd referendum of the type proposed by the Lib dems would simply increase the Leave majority. Now I just don't think there's the same appetite for a hard brexit, largely because it requires immense confidence in the government to steer the country through post brexit waters. That confidence just isn't there anymore.
 
cibaman said:
If the Eurosceptics try to oust May if she waters down brexit, they might find that brexit doesn't happen at all. Some will argue that a watered down brexit isn't any better than no brexit. But a soft brexit can be hardened over time whereas if the referendum result is over turned by a 2nd referendum, that would be it for the forseeable future.

Before the election, I had taken the view that a 2nd referendum of the type proposed by the Lib dems would simply increase the Leave majority. Now I just don't think there's the same appetite for a hard brexit, largely because it requires immense confidence in the government to steer the country through post brexit waters. That confidence just isn't there anymore.
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Agree.

I also think emotions on Brexit need to be seen in the context of the economic health of the country. The UK was riding high in the run up to the 2016 referendum, but the signs now are that the promise of free beer tomorrow will be of little comfort to the person struggling to get by today. And today is only going to get harder.
 
Gabriel said:
Agree.

I also think emotions on Brexit need to be seen in the context of the economic health of the country. The UK was riding high in the run up to the 2016 referendum, but the signs now are that the promise of free beer tomorrow will be of little comfort to the person struggling to get by today. And today is only going to get harder.
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There's a pub near me advertising FREE BEER. When you get up close the sign actually says FREE wifi . Great BEER. I think for many Leavers brexit might end up like that.
 
cibaman said:
There's a pub near me advertising FREE BEER. When you get up close the sign actually says FREE wifi . Great BEER. I think for many Leavers brexit might end up like that.
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difference is anyone with a brain walking up to a pub that advertised free beer would know that they couldn't possibly be offering free beer as that would be stupid, so would settle happily for great beer.
 
BJL_City said:
difference is anyone with a brain walking up to a pub that advertised free beer would know that they couldn't possibly be offering free beer as that would be stupid, so would settle happily for great beer.
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Leavers are going to have to settle for weak beer, because that's all they're going to get.
 
Gabriel said:
Theresa May planning to run a two-year parliament with no Queen's Speech in 2018. At the same time, we can expect Conservative infighting to intensify over Brexit (Hammond on The Andrew Marr Show today) in the coming weeks, and there is already the threat of a stalking horse.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...heresa-may-ministers-threaten-stalking-horse/
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If this happens they'll tear themselves apart. I read yesterday a quote from a sitting Tory MP who briefed anonymously saying that the Tory factions hate each other so much it could cause the party to split.
 
cibaman said:
If the Eurosceptics try to oust May if she waters down brexit, they might find that brexit doesn't happen at all. Some will argue that a watered down brexit isn't any better than no brexit. But a soft brexit can be hardened over time whereas if the referendum result is over turned by a 2nd referendum, that would be it for the forseeable future.

Before the election, I had taken the view that a 2nd referendum of the type proposed by the Lib dems would simply increase the Leave majority. Now I just don't think there's the same appetite for a hard brexit, largely because it requires immense confidence in the government to steer the country through post brexit waters. That confidence just isn't there anymore.
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Agreed. The country is in no position to just walk away from the EU within 20 months. Something needs to give, such as immigration, and it needs to be done over a much longer period of time. I'd be looking at a decade to phase certain things out.
 
goalmole said:
If this happens they'll tear themselves apart. I read yesterday a quote from a sitting Tory MP who briefed anonymously saying that the Tory factions hate each other so much it could cause the party to split.
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Oh how the tables have turned. Just think where Labour was 7/8 weeks ago in comparison to the Cons and look at it now. Lovely.
 
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