President Trump

noseve said:
Any sort of deal sets a precedent that an aggressive, bullying nation can profit from such behaviour, a situation condoned by every country entering into agreements with them.

I wonder what level of loss of trade for the UK would be considered as acceptable, in return for the peace of mind of not having to deal with them?

Whatever the terms of any deal, it's surely stretching it to consider US as trading 'partners' under this administration.

Special Relationship my arse.
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We’d be insane to sign any deal with these cunts.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
We’d be insane to sign any deal with these cunts.
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Rather deal with trustworthy Trump than the duplicitous Europeans………

Sadly, the absolute rabid Brexiteers and media owners would actually say that (although I’d imagine if they were given a dose of veritaserum many of them wouldn’t truly believe it).
 
The perfect fumble said:
The U.S and UK both have due process, but this little trip to El Salvador, not to mention Guatanamo Bay, means that in the hands of a President so minded due process is a minor inconvenience, particular as congress seems happy for the President to be both executive and legislature.

My main point was that both the UK and US have sizeable constituencies that don't give a damn about due process. Governments abide by it because of what Alistair Campbell said is euphemistically called the "good chaps" agreement, which is not an agreement at all just an acknowledgement by elected officials that due process is sacrosanct. If you elect a President who doesn't accept that, and Congress does nothing, there's little that can be done to force him.

I'm happy to be corrected if I'm getting this wrong.
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I think you have been led astray somewhat by Mr Campbell. You would not be the first as he was Blair’s chief leader astray!
Ignore his remarks and answer the following: who enforces due process irrespective of the gov’s attitude?
 
Bluemoon dan said:
Obviously no idea how true these figures are but I've seen a few similar ones popping up from various different places. On a personal level I know a trip to America was one of the options for my 50th birthday a bit later this year (was looking at the F1 in Austin) but with everything going on its dropped down the options list so wouldn't surprise me if they were accurate.


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I think this could get very ugly relatively quickly for the US. Think the bond thing could easily happen again. And let’s not forget how much the US owes China.

What was the stupid **** thinking ffs?
 
Bluemoon dan said:
Obviously no idea how true these figures are but I've seen a few similar ones popping up from various different places. On a personal level I know a trip to America was one of the options for my 50th birthday a bit later this year (was looking at the F1 in Austin) but with everything going on its dropped down the options list so wouldn't surprise me if they were accurate.


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Still do it, Dan! For the BBQ alone Austin and the hill country are a wonderful place
 
The perfect fumble said:
This is a rehash, with extra sprinkles, of your original false premise, it's fallacious, there's no other way to express it.

I mistakenly thought for a moment you were being serious, to throw in class struggle isn't worthy of the slightest consideration, at least not the way you framed it, you might as well throw in football hooliganism and fights down the boozer for all the significance they had for society then, and still do, compared to the problems generated by multiculturalism now. As for the NF, you're talking to the ex President of Bradford University Student's Union who protested many a time against the National Front, was threatened with legal action by them, physically assaulted by three of them and organised a Rock Against Racism concert against them in Bradford. The reality was even at their height the NF were nothing, they were very patchy, there was a real Cockney, east end docker vibe to them, they had no real traction with the broader white working class, not socially, not politically. The world of the late 70s is unrecognisable to today, we were still talking melting pot back then, multiculturalism! What the fuck was that?
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With respect Mr Fumble I think you’ve said a lot there without, actually saying very much at all. Once again, I believe you’ve misrepresented what I said. And while I don’t want to misrepresent you in return, it seems your view is that multiculturalism is the root cause of modern social problems particularly extremism and that these issues didn’t exist prior to large-scale immigration. You feel English identity is being denied and that the white working class has been abandoned by the left. I fundamentally disagree with that view.

I appreciate this has drifted well off topic. I’m happy to continue the discussion in a more relevant thread, or we can simply disagree agreeably and leave it there.
 
KS55 said:
It’s a non sequitur because it is not about targeting (my point)
which is a method employed in identifying likely victims of radicalisation. Your response was about other outcomes. You have not actually made any relevant points, just used your method to gainsay anything said by others.
Are you are completely unselfaware. Have you no idea what you sound like?
You try to make it sound like you have a great knowledge of these matters and nobody else does.
I have many friends and colleagues from the Muslim community in Bradford and I cannot think of one who would give your position house room. Indeed many actively despise it.
How many people from the community do you know? Have you ever lived in Bradford?
You sound awfully colonial, thinking you know better than them.
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I’m finding you increasingly tedious. I’ve been more than courteous and patient with you in this exchange, despite you calling me ignorant, arrogant, offensive, and now colonial.

When asked to provide evidence for your claim that “Bradford’s challenge includes a section of society that approves of domestic terrorism. There’s no getting away from that and it is not a tiny group.” you offered nothing but the presence of Prevent, as if that alone proves your point. You implied that Prevent’s focus on certain cultural groups confirms those cultures are the issue. I directly challenged that by pointing out Prevent targets based on assessed risk, not ethnicity, and that it also operates in white, non-migrant communities. That’s not a non sequitur it’s a dismantling of your logic. If you’re going to argue culture is the root cause, then say it.

You’ve completely derailed the original discussion, and this has clearly run its course. Your bad-faith arguments, misrepresentation, and cheap jibes leave nothing worth continuing, so this is where I leave it.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
You say that, but in reality Trump is so shit at making deals that this could be a prime opportunity to rip them off.
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Was thinking about this ripping off thing earlier. Great news for the USA that all these tourists aren’t visiting the States anymore with all that ripping off of Americans they’ve been doing over the years.
 
ROCKET80 said:
I’m finding you increasingly tedious. I’ve been more than courteous and patient with you in this exchange, despite you calling me ignorant, arrogant, offensive, and now colonial.

When asked to provide evidence for your claim that “Bradford’s challenge includes a section of society that approves of domestic terrorism. There’s no getting away from that and it is not a tiny group.” you offered nothing but the presence of Prevent, as if that alone proves your point. You implied that Prevent’s focus on certain cultural groups confirms those cultures are the issue. I directly challenged that by pointing out Prevent targets based on assessed risk, not ethnicity, and that it also operates in white, non-migrant communities. That’s not a non sequitur it’s a dismantling of your logic. If you’re going to argue culture is the root cause, then say it.

You’ve completely derailed the original discussion, and this has clearly run its course. Your bad-faith arguments, misrepresentation, and cheap jibes leave nothing worth continuing, so this is where I leave it.
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Because you don’t have any considered ideas, just boiler plate nonsense.
When asked to put your money where your mouth is, you run away.
PS The Prevent co-ordinator in Bradford is Michael Churley, I have his phone number if you want it.
 
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
Was thinking about this ripping off thing earlier. Great news for the USA that all these tourists aren’t visiting the States anymore with all that ripping off of Americans they’ve been doing over the years.
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Just think of all of the additional 'I heart NYC / L A. / Texas' tee-shirts (other places are available!) that the incumbents can now procure for themselves.

Surely MAGA at its finest...........
 
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