President Trump

ChicagoBlue said:
I’d say, as a European, a hearty “Yes!”

But, recency bias is a real thing, so I understand your concern.

As I’ve said elsewhere, it’s the leadership vacuum, or what’s referred to in the media as “And what happens tomorrow?” that always concerns one. If the Iranian Revolutionary Guard thrusts themselves into the breach, then who knows?! As said above, is there the secular desire, and hidden potential, to fill that vacuum.

As most people know, cities like Beirut and Tehran were more like The French Riviera than Fundamentalist Islamic Hellholes back in the day.

Maybe Trump can build a “big, beautiful hotel and resort” in the future?! ;-)
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I know feck all about Iran. I would be surprised if many in the West do either. But it won't stop the media painting simplified pictures for us all to consume.

God only knows what's next but I doubt that more violence will lead to a better outcome than diplomacy could have.
 
TonyM said:
I know feck all about Ukraine/Iran. I would be surprised if many in the West do either. But it won't stop the media painting simplified pictures for us all to consume.

God only knows what's next but I doubt that more violence will lead to a better outcome than diplomacy could have.
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Edited in Ukraine for Iran.

I've grown to think our Western leaders don't want diplomacy.

Russia and Iran are the worlds two biggest energy producers unanswerable to US hegemony. It stands to reason how Israel and Ukraine have both been used as proxies to create a war on US behalf.
 
TonyM said:
I know feck all about Iran. I would be surprised if many in the West do either. But it won't stop the media painting simplified pictures for us all to consume.

God only knows what's next but I doubt that more violence will lead to a better outcome than diplomacy could have.
Click to expand...
Well here is a brief modern history

Fter the war the UK reinstared their king (the shah) and took control of their oil fileds, earlly in the 50s Iranians elected a socialist government

The UK and US claimed it was rigged even though M16 were also accused of paying regional towns folk to vote for the Shah loyal more right wing party

Mossaddegh the PM brought in tje usual social reforms a left wing government did, social care, health care higher taxes for the rich, he also renationalised the oil fields which properly pissed off BP and the british government

So the CIA and M16 decided to fund sepratists and overthrow the legitimate government in a Coup, which reinstated the shah

America then heavily invested in keeping him in power amid fears of communism engulfing the arab penisula, As the 60s arrived and America was stretched trying to now police south east asia (which no one there asked them to) They left the shah to his own devices but atill invesred heavily in hom militaristically, he form his own person police force who ruled Iran brutally, he also squandered it's wealth.

He did bring in reforms that gave women more freedoms and encouraged land reform and education amongst the lower classes, however the reforms.meant to help farmers left many frustrated and the dilution of regional power from the religous clergy angered them

As the 70s arrived a growing resistance movement emerged with different factions socialist, nationalist and islamist, all believing the shah was a puppet for america and cared little for Iranians, eventually the Islamist faction became strongest (using the land reforms and his crackdown on student protests as fuel for discontent) and eventually overthrew the government, swappig one monarchistic oppressive regiem for a religously fanatical one.

80s Reagan obsessed over them and funded Syria (and libya) who in turn funded terrorists as Iran was too busy opposing Iraq but were backers of some islamist groups but kept less involved.
Israel and Iran had a unofficial pact of mutual support as both were enemies of Saddam, Iran still liked to influence the region and since the Gulf wars has spread themselves more and more and with Iraq a broken docile state Israel and Iran now both are the most powerful and as such their pact is gone.


I am sure someone will come along to either add more or correct me towards their perception of the last 75 years as I am just giving it from my understanding reading up on the history, theirnwil lbe other angles from others which will differ
 
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Shouldn't be too much of a surprise to MAGA.

Video of in his Trump Tower office 2012 lambasting Obama on his ability to negotiate with Iran. He's always been Hawkish on Iran.

In his first term he droned Qasem Soleimani!
 
urban genie said:
Well here is a brief modern history

Fter the war the UK reinstared their king (the shah) and took control of their oil fileds, earlly in the 50s Iranians elected a socialist government

The UK and US claimed it was rigged even though M16 were also accused of paying regional towns folk to vote for the Shah loyal more right wing party

Mossaddegh the PM brought in tje usual social reforms a left wing government did, social care, health care higher taxes for the rich, he also renationalised the oil fields which properly pissed off BP and the british government

So the CIA and M16 decided to fund sepratists and overthrow the legitimate government in a Coup, which reinstated the shah

America then heavily invested in keeping him in power amid fears of communism engulfing the arab penisula, As the 60s arrived and America was stretched trying to now police south east asia (which no one there asked them to) They left the shah to his own devices but atill invesred heavily in hom militaristically, he form his own person police force who ruled Iran brutally, he also squandered it's wealth.

He did bring in reforms that gave women more freedoms and encouraged land reform and education amongst the lower classes, however the reforms.meant to help farmers left many frustrated and the dilution of regional power from the religous clergy angered them

As the 70s arrived a growing resistance movement emerged with different factions socialist, nationalist and islamist, all believing the shah was a puppet for america and cared little for Iranians, eventually the Islamist faction became strongest (using the land reforms and his crackdown on student protests as fuel for discontent) and eventually overthrew the government, swappig one monarchistic oppressive regiem for a religously fanatical one.

80s Reagan obsessed over them and funded Syria (and libya) who in turn funded terrorists as Iran was too busy opposing Iraq but were backers of some islamist groups but kept less involved.
Israel and Iran had a unofficial pact of mutual support as both were enemies of Saddam, Iran still liked to influence the region and since the Gulf wars has spread themselves more and more and with Iraq a broken docile state Israel and Iran now both are the most powerful and as such their pact is gone.


I am sure someone will come along to either add more or correct me towards their perception of the last 75 years
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The book 'Prisoners of Geography' by Tim Marshall (recently updated) is a great book for explaining the politics of the 10 major geopolitical regions of the world. It might need a further update after tonight's events though.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
The guy who said 'Obama will start a war with Iran just to improve his poll numbers' just started a war with Iran' with zero evidence for doing so other than 'Trust me bro'.

Israel have been saying for the past 10 years that 'Iran are potentially weeks away from developing developing a nuclear bomb', yet there is no evidence whatsoever they they are even close. Do they think everyone has forgotten the Iraq WMD's that failed to materialise?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
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I’m thinking maybe i should start!
 
urban genie said:
Well here is a brief modern history

Fter the war the UK reinstared their king (the shah) and took control of their oil fileds, earlly in the 50s Iranians elected a socialist government

The UK and US claimed it was rigged even though M16 were also accused of paying regional towns folk to vote for the Shah loyal more right wing party

Mossaddegh the PM brought in tje usual social reforms a left wing government did, social care, health care higher taxes for the rich, he also renationalised the oil fields which properly pissed off BP and the british government

So the CIA and M16 decided to fund sepratists and overthrow the legitimate government in a Coup, which reinstated the shah

America then heavily invested in keeping him in power amid fears of communism engulfing the arab penisula, As the 60s arrived and America was stretched trying to now police south east asia (which no one there asked them to) They left the shah to his own devices but atill invesred heavily in hom militaristically, he form his own person police force who ruled Iran brutally, he also squandered it's wealth.

He did bring in reforms that gave women more freedoms and encouraged land reform and education amongst the lower classes, however the reforms.meant to help farmers left many frustrated and the dilution of regional power from the religous clergy angered them

As the 70s arrived a growing resistance movement emerged with different factions socialist, nationalist and islamist, all believing the shah was a puppet for america and cared little for Iranians, eventually the Islamist faction became strongest (using the land reforms and his crackdown on student protests as fuel for discontent) and eventually overthrew the government, swappig one monarchistic oppressive regiem for a religously fanatical one.

80s Reagan obsessed over them and funded Syria (and libya) who in turn funded terrorists as Iran was too busy opposing Iraq but were backers of some islamist groups but kept less involved.
Israel and Iran had a unofficial pact of mutual support as both were enemies of Saddam, Iran still liked to influence the region and since the Gulf wars has spread themselves more and more and with Iraq a broken docile state Israel and Iran now both are the most powerful and as such their pact is gone.


I am sure someone will come along to either add more or correct me towards their perception of the last 75 years as I am just giving it from my understanding reading up on the history, theirnwil lbe other angles from others which will differ
Click to expand...
Brilliant.
 
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