President Trump

Strangerepublic said:
"They think free health care is somehow wrong and damaging to a nation"
It's not free healthcare. It's paid for by taxes.
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Of course it has to be paid for. But it is at a minimum rate. Drug prices are negotiated at a national level. The NHS doesn't have to make a profit.
Americans are left to deal with health care costs/medicine on their own, are at the mercy of big companies who make vast profits.
Americans fear losing their jobs because it provides health cover. That added to less workers rights (no unions) leaves people at the mercy of crap bosses. Even then health coverage doesn't cover all costs.

Get cancer in the US, and your first thought is can i afford treatment/will my health insurance cover it. It can cause financial ruin. Their are a lot of people getting very rich on the backs of sick people.

Americans have been brainwashed into thinking free health care is a bad thing. It is, but only to rich people. I've seen it first hand with my American friends. The prices they pay for even basic medical needs and medicines are astronomical. Big pharma makes sure the right people are funded to make sure it stays that way.

The NHS isn't perfect. But it is a life saver for many many people. The US wants a slice of it. They can fuck off!
 
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Strangerepublic said:
"They think free health care is somehow wrong and damaging to a nation"
It's not free healthcare. It's paid for by taxes.

The tradeoff is a) taking care of poorer people versus b) the moral hazard and financial burden of giving away "free" stuff paid by your earnings.

Leaving aside moral or financial aspects, the US versus UK comparison simply shows how extremes on either a or b are sub optimal. What seems to worksbest is a mixed model - as is the case in some European countries.
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Quite a distraction from Trump's madness, but "taking care of poorer people" is capitalist bunkum - it's paying taxes to ensure you don't end up bankrupt because of illness.
 
Strangerepublic said:
"They think free health care is somehow wrong and damaging to a nation"
It's not free healthcare. It's paid for by taxes.

The tradeoff is a) taking care of poorer people versus b) the moral hazard and financial burden of giving away "free" stuff paid by your earnings.

Leaving aside moral or financial aspects, the US versus UK comparison simply shows how extremes on either a or b are sub optimal. What seems to worksbest is a mixed model - as is the case in some European countries.
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There’s a good few people I’ve argued with on here over the years, that know I’m not exactly a socialist, but the NHS is genuinely the best thing about our country, and I don’t think anything else comes even close.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
It seems to me that we are broadly in agreement that he is both a despicable human being and (to some extent) deranged. Think we simply disagree on the relative influence of each on his behaviour.
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Yep.

I lean towards his despicable nature being the more dominant factor, but agree both are true.

For me though, the more unfathomable, concerning and shocking factor is how American society and systems have proven to be so broken and, from a distance, immoral and pathetic and have encouraged/allowed such a disgusting human to disgrace them.

Yes, I know all about the systemic flaws of ultra capitalism but there’s something deeply wrong with the American people to have accepted it too. I genuinely think/hope that most other democratic countries would see public disorder if their leader was such an embarrassment and moral cess pit.
 
The problem with Donald "mad dog" Tannen Trump is, he lives in a dystopian world where he is charge of Planet Earth. He is "The Old Man," the leader of OCP (Robocop). Because he is morally corrupt, he believes he controls everything and can take anything he wants.

He prioritises profit and control and has a blatant disregard to us, the plebs of this world.

He wants that Elysium for the powerful and rich to live in luxury whilst we are exploited for his actions.

That's his world, all those by his side are his supporting actors.

The guy needs to be taken out.
 
jma said:
Yep.

I lean towards his despicable nature being the more dominant factor, but agree both are true.

For me though, the more unfathomable, concerning and shocking factor is how American society and systems have proven to be so broken and, from a distance, immoral and pathetic and have encouraged/allowed such a disgusting human to disgrace them.

Yes, I know all about the systemic flaws of ultra capitalism but there’s something deeply wrong with the American people to have accepted it too. I genuinely think/hope that most other democratic countries would see public disorder if their leader was such an embarrassment and moral cess pit.
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Can’t disagree with any of that.
 
fulabeer said:
Of course it has to be paid for. But it is at a minimum rate. Drug prices are negotiated at a national level. The NHS doesn't have to make a profit.
Americans are left to deal with health care costs/medicine on their own at are the mercy of big companies who make vast profits.
Americans fear losing their jobs because it provides health cover. That added to less workers rights (no unions) leaves people at the mercy of crap bosses. Even then health coverage doesn't cover all costs.

Get cancer in the US, and your first thought is can i afford treatment/will my health insurance cover it. It can cause financial ruin. Their are a lot of people getting very rich on the backs of sick people.

Americans have been brainwashed into thinking free health care is a bad thing. It is, but only to rich people. I've seen it first hand with my American friends. The prices they pay for even basic medical needs and medicines are astronomical. Big pharma makes sure the right people are funded to make sure it stays that way.

The NHS isn't perfect. But it is a life saver for many many people. The US wants a slice of it. They can fuck off!
Click to expand...

I lived in the US. I remember my so-called stepfather struggling one day in his truck. Hand clutched to his chest and in pain. He went to the local hospital and they wanted $400 before even entertaining what his problem was.

He couldn't afford this. They were happy to let him die. This was around 1989/90 and $400 was a huge amount of money. It was most likely angina he had we found out.

He died April 2008, a broken and drunken man - a veteran of the Vietnam war and no one cared.

America is a beautiful country, yet deeply flawed.

I hated the man I have just spoken about. He was a violent, psychotic individual. I saw him draw shotgun's on folk. I hated him, but left the situation and returned the UK when I was 16. Id been there seven years

I guess the point I am painfully trying to make is: it's a wonderful place, yet inhabited by so many fucking awful people( there's many great people too), brainwashed by even worse people. Guns and God are the law. Not interested in Jesus: You're a devil worshipper. The **** used to make me dig nightcrawlers out of the storm ditches during heavy rain so he could go fishing. Because I didn't want to do this, I was labelled a "commie" lol. I had the temerity to have a black friend and I was told one evening to "fuck off to your ****** friend." I stood up to that and told him to fuck off. I was about 13. I was sick of his controlling and bullying . He threatened to kill me. And he would have done had it not been for my mum. She paid the price that night.

Larry: Rot you fucking evil ****. And I hope Donald J Trump soon joins you. Because he too is a rancid fucking, terrible person. Burn you savage ****.
 
jma said:
Yes, I know all about the systemic flaws of ultra capitalism but there’s something deeply wrong with the American people to have accepted it too. I genuinely think/hope that most other democratic countries would see public disorder if their leader was such an embarrassment and moral cess pit.
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Maybe in the next world.
 
jma said:
Yep.

I lean towards his despicable nature being the more dominant factor, but agree both are true.

For me though, the more unfathomable, concerning and shocking factor is how American society and systems have proven to be so broken and, from a distance, immoral and pathetic and have encouraged/allowed such a disgusting human to disgrace them.

Yes, I know all about the systemic flaws of ultra capitalism but there’s something deeply wrong with the American people to have accepted it too. I genuinely think/hope that most other democratic countries would see public disorder if their leader was such an embarrassment and moral cess pit.
Click to expand...
The GOP in the House and Senate could have shut this down on two separate occasions in his first term and have multiple reasons to now. Same with his Cabinet.

The U.S. is being held hostage not so much by Trump but by about 150 give or take people who refuse to abide by their oaths of office.
 
HelloCity said:
I’m sensing something historical - in a bad way.

Fans disappearing, ICE vs fans battles etc.
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When it comes to a battle between England fans armed with plastic cafe chairs after 20 pints and yank ICE goons with machine guns I’d back our brave lads any day of the week.
 
Despite all the crap he does and says, his supporters will hardly know about it from a neutral perspective as social media sites like X have largely become a far right echo chamber.

 
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