bluethrunthru
Well-Known Member
so ROI allow them to go there then they cross to NI then come here? Seems a logical route
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Priti Vacant has a plan, a deal with migrants plan.
- Thread starter Rascal
- Start date
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
I look at the general profile of the people escaping Ukraine and I see elderly folk, women and children and babes in arms. I look at the general profile of the people trying to get here from France and I see young fit men clambering off these "kids toys" - I accept there are a few, and I mean a few women and children but I am afraid it is absolutely necessary to have rules in place.
Qwhite White
???Qwhite White
Mr Kobayashi
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2020
- Messages
- 17,179
Quite right =Qwhite White??
Think he might be calling you a racist bigot???
Thanks, well if that's his opinion, who am I to question it? Even though he could not be further from the mark if he tried. Still it takes all sorts, though if that's a reaction to anyone that holds an alternative point of view to his own then it ain't very solid ground upon which to argue your own case.... in my opinion.Quite right =Qwhite White??
Think he might be calling you a racist bigot???
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Mr Kobayashi
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 Oct 2020
- Messages
- 17,179
Thanks, well if that's his opinion, who am I to question it? Even though he could not be further from the mark if he tried. Still it takes all sorts, though if that's a reaction to anyone that holds an alternative point of view then it ain't very solid ground to make a case.... in my opinion.
No one has told that you can't have a differing opinion. They just think that holding such views make you an arsehole, in my opinion.
What views? And, because their different to yours I'm an arsehole? Good thing everyone in the world doesn't think like that eh?No one has told that you can't have a differing opinion. They just think that holding such views make you an arsehole, in my opinion.
I value and respect yours and @ifwecouldjust..... 's views on immigration but we just see things differently.
My view. I have sympathy for ALL people that live a shit life especially in war torn countries, be they from Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen or indeed Ukraine. I think where we differ is, I believe anyone who lives a really shit life would and should apply for Asylum in the first safe country the come to. I say this because once asylum is granted they could then, from a secure base and in relative comfort look toward getting application for to come to the UK. I still cannot get my head around why people who feel persecuted, threatened or whatever else in their own country do not make an application in the first "safe" country they come to. Instead they risk their lives trying to come here.
That aside I think this Government is a total embarrassment in the way they are handling the Ukraine visa process, quite simply they are not handling it, there is NO process. And if that's your view too then we agree on that at least.
My observation which seems to have caused grief to you and others remains. I look at the Asylum seekers in Calais and whether we like it or not, the profile of them is of predominantly young fit men whilst that of the people fleeing Ukraine are solely children, elderly folk, and women with babes in arms.
I accept this is controversial but I feel the Ukrainian peoples needs are greater than the men in Calais though not necessarily than that of those who remain in the country from which they have fled and who remain in peril. But given we do not have the capacity to take thousands of people (hospitals, schools, housing, you name it) the needs of the Elderly, women and children come first in my book every time. The Ukrainian men are staying home to fight for their country. And on this basis and this basis alone, if we have to make hard decisions, then the Ukrainians come first. Really sorry if that offends you but that is my opinion. Take this apology for offending you as opposed to having this opinion.
Go ahead call me all you want but we just cannot increase our population willy nilly whilst we have the all the housing problems that we have and where people are waiting years for basic operations - we just do not have the capacity to cater for the numbers some expect us to.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
What views? And, because their different to yours I'm an arsehole? Good thing everyone in the world doesn't think like that eh?
I value and respect yours and @ifwecouldjust..... 's views on immigration but we just see things differently.
My view. I have sympathy for ALL people that live a shit life especially in war torn countries, be they from Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen or indeed Ukraine. I think where we differ is, I believe anyone who lives a really shit life would and should apply for Asylum in the first safe country the come to. I say this because once asylum is granted they could then, from a secure base and in relative comfort look toward getting application for to come to the UK. I still cannot get my head around why people who feel persecuted, threatened or whatever else in their own country do not make an application in the first "safe" country they come to. Instead they risk their lives trying to come here.
That aside I think this Government is a total embarrassment in the way they are handling the Ukraine visa process, quite simply they are not handling it, there is NO process. And if that's your view too then we agree on that at least.
My observation which seems to have caused grief to you and others remains. I look at the Asylum seekers in Calais and whether we like it or not, the profile of them is of predominantly young fit men whilst that of the people fleeing Ukraine are solely children, elderly folk, and women with babes in arms.
I accept this is controversial but I feel the Ukrainian peoples needs are greater than the men in Calais though not necessarily than that of those who remain in the country from which they have fled and who remain in peril. But given we do not have the capacity to take thousands of people (hospitals, schools, housing, you name it) the needs of the Elderly, women and children come first in my book every time. The Ukrainian men are staying home to fight for their country. And on this basis and this basis alone, if we have to make hard decisions, then the Ukrainians come first. Really sorry if that offends you but that is my opinion. Take this apology for offending you as opposed to having this opinion.
Go ahead call me all you want but we just cannot increase our population willy nilly whilst we have the all the housing problems that we have and where people are waiting years for basic operations - we just do not have the capacity to cater for the numbers some expect us to.
We increased our population ''willy nilly'' after the World War 11 because it suited the Government to import cheap labour and implement political policies that encouraged the population to have families. .... if there was another ''baby boom'' as there was in the 50's ... the Government would have to provide the schools , surgeries, hospitals , houses , roads etc etc etc to cope but instead they do away with the need for that by slowing immigration and implementing political policies that discourage families from having kids.
The UK accepts the lowest number of asylum seekers in Europe and also has the most draconian laws for expelling them.
FYI
Under the UN Refugee Convention of 1951 n asylum seeker has the right to choose the country in which to apply for asylum. They do not have to apply in the first 'safe country' they arrive in.
They choose to come to the UK (sometimes) because
1. They have family here
2. They have community here
3. They speak the language
4. The UK may not have an extradition treaty with the country that they have left.
Everybody who wants to request asylum in the UK should have safe passage, an easy method of application for asylum, safe and fit accommodation and the right to be heard and their case considered, (UN Refugee Convention of 1951) Yet NONE of this is in place in England.
If the Government dont agree with the Principles of the Convention they should lobby for change to the UN ... but for some strange reason they dont. Instead they just wind up their electorate by blaming the Eu or ''loony lefties'' and then go and cut 5500 case workers jobs thus creating a backlog (in addition to Covid) so the applications cant be heard and asylum seekers have to be housed in hotels rather than refugee centres (and winding their base up even more)
You're being played .... you don't see it .... but you're being played.
BTW Crap match tonight ... more like a training exercise.
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What views? And, because their different to yours I'm an arsehole? Good thing everyone in the world doesn't think like that eh?
I value and respect yours and @ifwecouldjust..... 's views on immigration but we just see things differently.
My view. I have sympathy for ALL people that live a shit life especially in war torn countries, be they from Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen or indeed Ukraine. I think where we differ is, I believe anyone who lives a really shit life would and should apply for Asylum in the first safe country the come to. I say this because once asylum is granted they could then, from a secure base and in relative comfort look toward getting application for to come to the UK. I still cannot get my head around why people who feel persecuted, threatened or whatever else in their own country do not make an application in the first "safe" country they come to. Instead they risk their lives trying to come here.
That aside I think this Government is a total embarrassment in the way they are handling the Ukraine visa process, quite simply they are not handling it, there is NO process. And if that's your view too then we agree on that at least.
My observation which seems to have caused grief to you and others remains. I look at the Asylum seekers in Calais and whether we like it or not, the profile of them is of predominantly young fit men whilst that of the people fleeing Ukraine are solely children, elderly folk, and women with babes in arms.
I accept this is controversial but I feel the Ukrainian peoples needs are greater than the men in Calais though not necessarily than that of those who remain in the country from which they have fled and who remain in peril. But given we do not have the capacity to take thousands of people (hospitals, schools, housing, you name it) the needs of the Elderly, women and children come first in my book every time. The Ukrainian men are staying home to fight for their country. And on this basis and this basis alone, if we have to make hard decisions, then the Ukrainians come first. Really sorry if that offends you but that is my opinion. Take this apology for offending you as opposed to having this opinion.
Go ahead call me all you want but we just cannot increase our population willy nilly whilst we have the all the housing problems that we have and where people are waiting years for basic operations - we just do not have the capacity to cater for the numbers some expect us to.
A few counters to this.
1) This is logistically impossible. Poland for example cannot take in a few million Ukrainians and process their applications to stay. That could take years to process.
Put yourself in their situation, lets say the UK and Ireland is invaded and you have family in the US who want you to come over and stay with them. You manage to get to France, but now you have to apply for a asylum there with millions of others. You're in a country that you don't know, you don't speak the language and you have no idea how long you'll have to stay there whilst your application is processed. During this the US decide to make the process British refugee's coming to the country as hard as possible.
On your point about young fit men in Calais; that's the demographic of a person most likely to survive a trip through Europe with little money, food and supplies.
You cannot compare what is happening in the Ukraine with what is happening in Syria. The Ukraine is facing invasion from one enemy, men have been ordered to stay and fight and in most cases are happy to serve. Syria is being destroyed by it's own government, ISIS and other rebel groups.