Protests outside a Batley School

Rascal said:
In the old days we sent kids up chimneys, we locked people away for being ill, we would describe a black neighbour as a wog, we would think men of a sensitive nature were weak and we would chain women to the kitchen sink. In the old days we did all those things. We also hunted with sticks and stones, we grunted at each other, that's what we did in the old days. We would be told in no uncertain terms that it was fine to send kids up chimneys, it was right we locked people away for being ill, it was ok to call your Black neighbour a wog, men were men and if you were soft it was fine to call them poofs, women were not even allowed their own mortgage until the 70s, in the old days we did all that. It was fine to cause offence to those people, it was fine to ridicule people, because it made the people who did the ridiculing feel strong and powerful and more importantly in control. Thats what we did in the old days. In the old days we could grope women and harass them, in the old days they were just pieces of meat to be pawed at, in the old days we could make offensive comments to people with disabilities, in the old days we would parade people like the Elephant man around in circuses, in the old days you could laugh at their misfortune. In the old days we could ridicule the poor and send them to poor houses and we could abuse people less fortunate than ourselves in the old days because it was allowed, because we were inhuman and we were cunts. In the old days we could do all that, in fact we were encouraged to do that, because in the old days those with power encouraged that sort of behaviour because it cemented their positions of power. You of course could not ridicule them in the old days because your head would be cut off.

In the old days everyone knew their place, they knew the social hierarchy and they doffed their cap and tugged their forelocks in the old days. That was the old days, that is what every little piece of social progress has faced for generations, they have faced the old days, when times were better and you could say what you wanted and nobody took offence, because nobody cared about offence. It was normal to abuse people and in the old days it was normal to use people, in the old days we had slaves we abused, that's the old days and every time people stood against change. Its a far wider subject that just what you can say and your right to cause offence, its about why you have those rights and in whose name you exercise those rights.

If you are getting offended by people being offended are you not just like them? And by judging there grievance as trivial are you not acting in the same manner as the very people who thought it was perfectly acceptable to send kids up chimneys, to call neighbour's wog's, to discriminate against people and by default ensuring you retain the power you have.
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Well that is a rant and a half, you hardly drew breath, but I'm not offended by it no.

If we are talking purely on the subject matter I respect their right to be offended as what they're protesting about is fundamental to their religion and that religion is the core of their lives. I'm not a religious person myself but I respect others do feel strongly about theirs. I do take offence that anyone who might disagree with that viewpoint should be silenced, lose their job or even killed. Or in this case probably not even disagree but just be discussing why certain religions feel as strongly as they do, which as a multi faith school I would think is part of his job when trying to teach religious education and tolerance of others beliefs. He could have done this without actually showing the visual imagery that provoked the uproar but he probably thought in the context he did, as way of explaining it in more depth it would be okay. In light of reaction to the said images in recent times though it probably wasn't his brightest idea when planning the lesson for the day.

The point I was trying to get across was soon nobody will dare to open their mouth about any subject anywhere for fear of offending somebody within earshot. That could be the case on absolutely any single subject on earth. Somebody might say on the bus home from shopping, " I bought some ant killer today my garden is overrun with the little buggers." This could cause outrage and offence by a pro life for all living creatures believer sat nearby who could call this person a mass murderer for his actions. It might be a way out analogy but it happens.

I think in my post I was alluding predominantly to offence in the workplace and how it has at times reached ridiculous levels and been exploited by lazy people.

I went away to sea in 1974. It was a tough life back then and disagreements were often sorted out by aggression and often violence. People were rarely sacked for this as it was kept in house, or below decks so to speak. At times it was pretty terrifying and thankfully over the years this became very rare and everybody barring the best fighter onboard or the bully welcomed that. Fast forward to around 2010. I am no longer deep sea but working the cross channel ferry sector in banking/foreign exchange onboard. I am working in the office with a female colleague. On busy days part of our job was to get cash lifts from the busy tills. This made the night person's job easier and the till operators welcomed it as at the end of their day cashing up their till and balancing it was quicker and easier for them. Most procured a cash lifts without being asked.

Our office faced the duty paid retail shop. The till by the entrance/exit was one of the busiest. We had just been hammered and cash lifts were coming in as it was now a quiet trip so people were getting them done. Not the girl on the busiest till though. We waited for a while but no it wasn't coming. We had seen she had been on a break and now she was chatting with other colleagues. Time was running out as the next trip we had 1,800 passengers coming onboard. The lady working with me phoned her to ask her to do a cash lift. The girl wasn't happy, it interupted her conversation and she resented anybody telling her what to do. We could see her demeanor through our window as she took the call and she was abrupt with my colleague. Anyway the cash lift comes in and she then disappears into the office next door which contains our mutual boss. About fifteen minutes later my colleague is called into his office. When she comes back she is visibly upset and shocked. The girl had complained about her, saying she was rude on the phone and bullied her into doing a cash lift. I was incredulous. She hadn't, I was present when she made the call. I wanted to go in and have it out with the boss but she didn't want me to so I waited until I finished my shift and she'd gone and decided to have a word. That is when I got the flannel about how people see things and work differently and the girl found my colleagues phone call offensive. I told him we may as well lay the ship up, pay off and go home then. I was there when she made the call.and if asking someone to do their job in a pleasant manner was offensive then the ship would grind to a halt. It was utterly ludicrous. In spite of this my colleague was still deemed to be in the wrong as she had offended the girl, even though she had not been offensive the girl thought she had. I realised then it was time to go. This is just one example of the offended culture now prevalent in society today.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Are they protesting again today? If not I'll pop onto the other thread and be outraged at police brutality instead.
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Probably mate. I must say I’m taken with the beauty of it all, this entity you cannot see, I cannot draw, but it’s name is male so, you know, you can probably imagine what it might look like.
 
oldius said:
My point is that the teacher should have known it was insensitive and should not have shown it. Arguments against religion or the teaching of religion are a separate issue.
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Whether he knew it was insensitive is neither here nor there, what the mob outside want, what many in their group wants, is for the people of this country
to accept their beliefs without question. They are not reasonable, they are religious fanatics that brook no argument or discussion. We have collectively danced around this complete and utter perversion of the Western world's
long acceptance of free speech and expression, and not only have we not confronted it, we have pandered to it.
The result of that is there is now an entrenched view that this particular religion must never be criticised, and as most of us know, it's based on fear, fear of reprisals, something which is happening now to this teacher, who's fled into hiding.
This is a saddening and disgraceful state of affairs in a so called free society.
 
SWP's back said:
You made some good points up until here when I suddenly remembered a guy is in hiding for his life for showing a cartoon, that had been shown previously at his school, in a class that no one was forced to attend, in the U.K., in 2021. The teacher doing that is not the same as calling someone a wog, groping a woman or sending kids up chimneys.

So no Russ, fuck those that are offended by something that literally changes nothing in their lives. Fuck them all the way, with a gnarled stick.
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It's interesting though ain't it, how do we measure offence, when we can be so easily offended ourselves as you have just proven. You are offended that people took offence, because in your mind "literally" nothing changes in their lives. Obviously something does change that is way they take offence. I go back to Blueish Swedes post about why the idolisation factor is so important in there taking offence. It is central to their beliefs.

It's not central to my belief's and causes me no offence but then why would it. I could be equally offended that somebody in my class at school decided to show cartoons of Colin Bell with his leg hanging off, that would literally change nothing in my life, but i would still be offended, Not because the image itself is offensive, but it would be in bad taste if a person knew my childhood hero was Colin Bell.

In no way am i trying to trivialise the fact there is a teacher who acting in good faith is now in hiding in fear of his life from religious fruitcakes, but if we are offended that they are offended then will we not live in a world of perpetual offence.

Can we even go further and say taking offence is a natural reaction to having our innermost core beliefs and values challenged in such a way no consideration is given those innermost core beliefs and values. Or is it even right that we have the right to challenge peoples most dearly held innermost core beliefs and values even if we are not fully aware of what they might be. Is that not where ignorance and prejudice arises from.

I am not really trying to make any point either way, it is an area that people are quick to jump on without maybe giving it full thought of what the effects and affects it may have.

One thing I am certain of, is it takes somebody far clever than i will ever be to totally understand and grasp the full consequences of giving and taking offence.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
Whether he knew it was insensitive is neither here nor there, what the mob outside want, what many in their group wants, is for the people of this country
to accept their beliefs without question. They are not reasonable, they are religious fanatics that brook no argument or discussion. We have collectively danced around this complete and utter perversion of the Western world's
long acceptance of free speech and expression, and not only have we not confronted it, we have pandered to it.
The result of that is there is now an entrenched view that this particular religion must never be criticised, and as most of us know, it's based on fear, fear of reprisals, something which is happening now to this teacher, who's fled into hiding.
This is a saddening and disgraceful state of affairs in a so called free society.
Click to expand...
And exactly why we are now fucked... We should have had the balls when first confronted with this plague to deal with it... Now we've made it impossible to do that

Free speech in the UK is now a preserve of certain elements of our population... I don't fit the stereotype
 
paulchapo said:
Well that is a rant and a half, you hardly drew breath, but I'm not offended by it no.

If we are talking purely on the subject matter I respect their right to be offended as what they're protesting about is fundamental to their religion and that religion is the core of their lives. I'm not a religious person myself but I respect others do feel strongly about theirs. I do take offence that anyone who might disagree with that viewpoint should be silenced, lose their job or even killed. Or in this case probably not even disagree but just be discussing why certain religions feel as strongly as they do, which as a multi faith school I would think is part of his job when trying to teach religious education and tolerance of others beliefs. He could have done this without actually showing the visual imagery that provoked the uproar but he probably thought in the context he did, as way of explaining it in more depth it would be okay. In light of reaction to the said images in recent times though it probably wasn't his brightest idea when planning the lesson for the day.

The point I was trying to get across was soon nobody will dare to open their mouth about any subject anywhere for fear of offending somebody within earshot. That could be the case on absolutely any single subject on earth. Somebody might say on the bus home from shopping, " I bought some ant killer today my garden is overrun with the little buggers." This could cause outrage and offence by a pro life for all living creatures believer sat nearby who could call this person a mass murderer for his actions. It might be a way out analogy but it happens.

I think in my post I was alluding predominantly to offence in the workplace and how it has at times reached ridiculous levels and been exploited by lazy people.

I went away to sea in 1974. It was a tough life back then and disagreements were often sorted out by aggression and often violence. People were rarely sacked for this as it was kept in house, or below decks so to speak. At times it was pretty terrifying and thankfully over the years this became very rare and everybody barring the best fighter onboard or the bully welcomed that. Fast forward to around 2010. I am no longer deep sea but working the cross channel ferry sector in banking/foreign exchange onboard. I am working in the office with a female colleague. On busy days part of our job was to get cash lifts from the busy tills. This made the night person's job easier and the till operators welcomed it as at the end of their day cashing up their till and balancing it was quicker and easier for them. Most procured a cash lifts without being asked.

Our office faced the duty paid retail shop. The till by the entrance/exit was one of the busiest. We had just been hammered and cash lifts were coming in as it was now a quiet trip so people were getting them done. Not the girl on the busiest till though. We waited for a while but no it wasn't coming. We had seen she had been on a break and now she was chatting with other colleagues. Time was running out as the next trip we had 1,800 passengers coming onboard. The lady working with me phoned her to ask her to do a cash lift. The girl wasn't happy, it interupted her conversation and she resented anybody telling her what to do. We could see her demeanor through our window as she took the call and she was abrupt with my colleague. Anyway the cash lift comes in and she then disappears into the office next door which contains our mutual boss. About fifteen minutes later my colleague is called into his office. When she comes back she is visibly upset and shocked. The girl had complained about her, saying she was rude on the phone and bullied her into doing a cash lift. I was incredulous. She hadn't, I was present when she made the call. I wanted to go in and have it out with the boss but she didn't want me to so I waited until I finished my shift and she'd gone and decided to have a word. That is when I got the flannel about how people see things and work differently and the girl found my colleagues phone call offensive. I told him we may as well lay the ship up, pay off and go home then. I was there when she made the call.and if asking someone to do their job in a pleasant manner was offensive then the ship would grind to a halt. It was utterly ludicrous. In spite of this my colleague was still deemed to be in the wrong as she had offended the girl, even though she had not been offensive the girl thought she had. I realised then it was time to go. This is just one example of the offended culture now prevalent in society today.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply pal, i appreciate it.

I wasn't really having a rant at you, it was just some random thoughts i had in my head in this morning.
 
Bluemanc100 said:
And exactly why we are now fucked... We should have had the balls when first confronted with this plague to deal with it... Now we've made it impossible to do that

Free speech in the UK is now a preserve of certain elements of our population... I don't fit the stereotype
Click to expand...
You feel your free speech is imperilled, yet you have just used your free speech to call a religion a plague.

That is an interesting juxtaposition.
 
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