Rag trade

[The Fixer]

Without dragging this into further in-depth financial discussion the crux of what im saying is how can them ridding themselves of 220 million of debt that had a mammoth 16.25 interest rate on top of it without using club funds be bad news for them, it just strikes me as pigheaded denial in some cases, no one ive spoken to ever expected them to go bust so its not really a surprise in that sense their major problem was those Payment in kind notes, that PIK debt was the major reason many predicted their downfall in the first place the bond itself isnt that hard to pay (45 million a year isnt it? they make more than double that as it is) the PIK's were the issue that as far as im aware could have spiralled to over 600 million if it were left until the bond expired in 2017, the fact its now taken out of the picture is good news for the club itself.

-- Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:11 pm --

3 billion? hahahahaha they're worth about 1.4 billion GBP......

Not according to a financial expert on Skysportsnews last night.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/bil" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/bil</a> ... _48ZS.html he was probably talking us dollars not GBP big difference.

 

[Bobbins]

Surely they will have to come clean sooner or later !!! Wouldn't they have to provide the Premier League with details of were the money has come from ???

My understanding is they'd have to inform the PIK holders and the Bond purchasers, although that may not be the case and even if it is i doubt it'll go beyond that.

Although with it being money used from outside of United they probably dont, in America its allowed to be far more secretive of your financials.

I get what you are saying on the financial cloak and dagger stuff!! But the fact remains this money which has come from their so called own pockets was/is being used for intents and purposes the purchase of the club!!! Therefore the premier league should be provided with its origin!! Otherwise we could have Drug barons or mafia type set ups laundering piles of cash through our clubs.

 

[hooter]

My understanding is they'd have to inform the PIK holders and the Bond purchasers, although that may not be the case and even if it is i doubt it'll go beyond that.

Although with it being money used from outside of United they probably dont, in America its allowed to be far more secretive of your financials.

I get what you are saying on the financial cloak and dagger stuff!! But the fact remains this money which has come from their so called own pockets was/is being used for intents and purposes the purchase of the club!!! Therefore the premier league should be provided with its origin!! Otherwise we could have Drug barons or mafia type set ups laundering piles of cash through our clubs.

But everybody knows they made the money though shopping malls and sports ventures not drug money.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

If they've sold OT then strictly speaking that could be true. They've just missed the bit about how it got into their pockets in the first place.

just cos they have loaded their shitty club with debt doesn't mean that they themselves are skint too

the club could go bust (hopefully) and their vast personal fortune would remain secure and untouched.....

they've been shamed into this imo

I don't believe they are flush with cash.

Their business model involves high leverage and their assets are mainly commercial property in the USA (shopping malls) which are not in a healthy state. All are heavily mortgaged, a lot are in negative equity and quite a few aren't generating enough income to cover the mortgages. There's very little likelihood of them being able to sell enough of these to pay off the mortgages and generate £200m surplus cash, certainly not without it being noticed.

They haven't sold the Bucs as that would have been made public (and they're not allowed to use them as security) so they've either got finance from somewhere else (which they will still need to fund out of the rags cash pile) or they've sold OT and Carrington.

The fact they won't say strengthens my belief it's the latter.

These Forbes valuations are completely misleading. The Glazers' businesses are registered in Delaware, which does not require disclosure so their affairs are completely shielded from public scrutiny. The valuation doesn't take into account their debt (or that of the rags as far as I know, which they value at around £1bn)

 

[Bobbins]

I get what you are saying on the financial cloak and dagger stuff!! But the fact remains this money which has come from their so called own pockets was/is being used for intents and purposes the purchase of the club!!! Therefore the premier league should be provided with its origin!! Otherwise we could have Drug barons or mafia type set ups laundering piles of cash through our clubs.

But everybody knows they made the money though shopping malls and sports ventures not drug money.

Do we?? Last it was reported they empire was crumbling!!! But that is not the point!!! Surely when transactions of this magnitude are made in relation to a premier league club it should be totally transparent!!! And have an audit trail!!
Who is to say they have not had a loan from a dubious sources (I.e. drug baron/Mafia) type people!!! Surely the UEFA and the Premier League have a duty to make sure such things cannot happen.

 

[hooter]

But everybody knows they made the money though shopping malls and sports ventures not drug money.

Do we?? Last it was reported they empire was crumbling!!! But that is not the point!!! Surely when transactions of this magnitude are made in relation to a premier league club it should be totally transparent!!! And have an audit trail!!
Who is to say they have not had a loan from a dubious sources (I.e. drug baron/Mafia) type people!!! Surely the UEFA and the Premier League have a duty to make sure such things cannot happen.

I think American tax laws make sure that amount of cash has to be accounted for.

 

[Bobbins]

Do we?? Last it was reported they empire was crumbling!!! But that is not the point!!! Surely when transactions of this magnitude are made in relation to a premier league club it should be totally transparent!!! And have an audit trail!!
Who is to say they have not had a loan from a dubious sources (I.e. drug baron/Mafia) type people!!! Surely the UEFA and the Premier League have a duty to make sure such things cannot happen.

I think American tax laws make sure that amount of cash has to be accounted for.

Since when was the Premier league in America???? We have rules relating to fit and proper people owning clubs!! Surely this must cover the source of finances??

What I am trying to get at is if they have borrowed money (Legit) how can we all be sure it has come from someone who is deemed fit and proper to have a share in a football club???

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I think American tax laws make sure that amount of cash has to be accounted for.

Since when was the Premier league in America ???? We have rules relating to fit and propper people owning clubs !! Surley this must cover the source of finances ??

The F&PPT only covers convictions for financial fraud. Any half-decent test would have stopped Thaksin in his tracks.

 

[hooter]

I think American tax laws make sure that amount of cash has to be accounted for.

Since when was the Premier league in America ???? We have rules relating to fit and propper people owning clubs !! Surley this must cover the source of finances ??

So the conspiracy theory includes the United states government now, interesting.

 

[Bobbins]

Since when was the Premier league in America ???? We have rules relating to fit and propper people owning clubs !! Surley this must cover the source of finances ??

So the conspiracy theory includes the United states government now, interesting.

Stop trying to be a smart arce !!!

What I am trying to get at is if they have borrowed money (Legit) how can we all be sure it has come from someone who is deemed fit and proper to have a share in a football club???