Rags owe us £3.3billion (probably)

[bluevengence]

Some good stuff on this site.....<a class="postlink" href="http://www.mcfchistory.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mcfchistory.com/</a>

 

[daveduke67]

United were in a perilous financial state at the end of WWII. According to Gas Masks for Goal Posts,
a history of football during the war, the club had a £15,000 overdraft and had to wait until March 1948
before the War Damage Commission awarded them £17,478 to rebuild the heavily bombed Old Trafford.


Details of the first ground-share agreement from 1941-42
The solution was to share Maine Road for three seasons, starting in 1946-47. The deal, no doubt made in the spirit of post-war unity, also looked like a good one for City, with United agreeing to pay an annual rent of £5,000 plus 10% of gate receipts. City also got the use of United’s The Cliff for reserve matches.



Problem was, it appears that the rent was never paid. According to Gary James’ Manchester - A Football History, ‘former directors of the Blues doubt this rental figure was actually paid – they claim the postwar spirit and City’s relative wealth at the time gave them more of a charitable view of the situation.’


However, a debt is a debt – and I think we’ve been more than patient with United on this matter. As well as three years rent totalling £15,000, the agreed share of gate receipts may also need to be added. No income figures exist for those three seasons but in 1950 United’s turnover was £106,400, the vast bulk of which would have been match receipts. Their gates were higher during their time at Maine Road (United announced an aggregate profit of £75,000 for those three seasons) but let’s say, for argument’s sake, that United took around £100,000 in gate receipts per season. A 10% cut of that would come to £30,000 for the three years which, added to the £15,000 ground rent, comes to £45,000.


Adjusted for inflation (with the aid of this cool calculator), that would be worth £1,180,000 today.
However, as with most unpaid debts, it would be appropriate to impose other charges. Although most
debt collection agencies add flat rate administration fees to the money owed, let’s be generous and
waive those. But a penal rate of interest would be the norm, with unpaid interest added to the capital
each year (what’s known as compound interest). Considering the absence of any repayment plan, I
believe that 19.8% would be a fair rate of annual interest. After all, it’s what a bank might charge for
an unauthorized loan and much less than a pawn broker or loan shark. With the help of this compound
interest calculator, the unpaid £45,000 would have grown to exactly £3,292,526,639 today (or to around
£3.3billion by next week).


However, in light of United’s current debts of £514million, we’ll accept the money in instalments.

 

[Gary James]

As the site says the story is one I reported in "Manchester A Football History" (and to some extent first reported in "Farewell To Maine Road"), so it's worth me adding a bit more.

In my discussion with a former City director he first made the suggestion it wasn't paid, however in my research of Utd's history it is clear that everyone connected with the Reds believe it was.

The finances of Utd suggest it was paid, so if City's accounts suggest it wasn't then one of the 2 records is incorrect.

My assumption was - and remains - that it was paid in full.

The point of my piece in "Manchester A Football History" was to explain how Utd benefitted more from using Maine Rd than City did (many people claim City milked Utd for profit at this time - that's not true).

It's not really about whether they paid or not (and I do believe they paid as my chapter goes on to consider the other stuff). It's more about who benefitted most - and that was absolutely United not City.

I'm pleased that there is interest in all of this sort of thing and - obviously this might sound like a plug - if you really want to grasp the relationships between City & United (plus the other clubs) then you will benefit a lot by reading "Manchester - A Football History."

Borrow it from a library, download the kindle sections on Amazon, borrow a friend's copy - it will be worth it. There's some on special offer at ebay at the moment.

 

[moomba]

I still say sue the fuckers. ;)

 

[MCFChistory]

The immediate post-war period is one of huge significance for both clubs - and one that changed the balance of power in Manchester football.

As well as the matter of rent, there was also a significant drift in support from City to United. City were also falling behind in other areas, such as youth development and PR. The PR battle is, I believe, a hugely important one. Manchester had one of the biggest newspaper industries in the world back then, and many journalists from that period have marveled at Matt Busby's ability to generate positive press for United.

Gary,
I'd be fascinated to see the evidence that the rent was paid. It was a commonly held view by both sets of supporters at the time that United did not pay for their time at Maine Road.

 

[blue b4 the moon]

So one team has cooked the books.

Ask yourself who that is likely to be.

 

[bobmcfc]

I would take them to court over it. It would be very amusing if we could

 

[Gary James]

It was a commonly held view by both sets of supporters at the time that United did not pay for their time at Maine Road.

Really? I'd like to see that evidence.

For me whether Utd paid or not isn't the issue at all, it's everything else that's much more significant (I only included the throw away line because I liked the suggestion, though I had to admit it seemed unlikely). There are lots of issues and angles to all this and much of it goes back to what happened 21 years earlier when Utd refused City's request to move to OT after the Hyde Rd Main Stand was destroyed. That's when the first wave of negativity between the fans and the clubs was seen. Before that the clubs were supportive.

Even after 1920 City consistently tried to help Utd - anyone whose read my research, articles and books covering "Manchester Central" will understand how City 'saved' United. Then of course there's the groundsharing, floodlights, Munich-support.... often overlooked and one of the main reasons why I wrote "Manchester A Football History" in the first place.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Surely we should sue them for this just due to the fact it would be funny. I mean £3.3 billion in real generated income would push Platini over the edge

 

[bobmcfc]

Surely we should sue them for this just due to the fact it would be funny. I mean £3.3 billion in real generated income would push Platini over the edge

purely for comedy value