Ramadan

calumdown said:
i live in essaouira.
do you know it?
a fishing port on the west coast.

i have encountered no problems whatsoever with locals.
they are, in the main. extremely warm and friendly to me
i choose to live outside the medina because it is touristic.
where i live is 99.9% locals.
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Been to Essaouira a few times.
Lovely place, a bit windy though.
Always enjoyed being there.
I fancy visiting when the Gnaoua music festival is on, I think it would be a fantastic experience.
 
dronefromsector7G said:
My daughter just said no Muslims drink alcohol as it’s against their religion. I said loads do, she said well they’re not true Muslims.

Welcome to religion.
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Probably the most significant academic work on Islam to be published in recent times is this magisterial study by the late Shahab Ahmed. That's Mughal emperor Jahangir depicted on the cover, resplendent with a wine cup in one hand and the Qur’an in the other.

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I haven't read my copy yet. But here's how it starts off:

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There were once taverns throughout the Islamic world, thus demonstrating that the Quranic prohibition on alcohol has not always been strictly observed. Indeed, the Sufi mystics thought intoxication with wine brought you closer to Allah.

Plus, one of the most revered of all Muslim poets is the bisexual, hellraising, Shane MacGowan-like Abu Nuwas. In 1972 he was immortalized in bronze, wine glass in hand, and his statue was placed at the head of Abu Nuwas Street in Baghdad. Although I understand that the street was eventually renamed by the puritanical Islamist authorities, as far as I know it's still there. So it's lasted longer than the ones erected in honour of Saddam Hussein.

Here's a sample of his poetry:

'Take revenge on Ramadan,
With the fine wines aged in clay,
And spend Shawwal in revelry,
As the songstress plays,
May you be, without exception,
Drunk at least twice a day,
The months I find most agreeable,
Are from Ramadan furthest away.'

Shawal is the month that follows Ramadan in the Islamic calendar.

Although I haven't read Ahmed yet, I have just finished Juan Cole's recent biographical study of the Prophet, which is somewhat provocatively titled Muhammad : Prophet of Peace Amid the Clash of Empires. I say 'provocatively' because on X I have often seen Islam described as a 'religion of peace' sarcastically by anti-Muslim bigots. Well, in actual fact, according to Cole, it may have started off as just that. In case anyone wants to follow up on this, a pdf of the entire text can easily be found online.

But anyway, here's something intriguing that Cole states at the end of the book:

'The Qur’an shows evolution in its treatment of a few laws. It begins by forbidding Believers to come to prayers drunk, but later verses say there is more harm than good in alcohol. (It never did outlaw the latter, inasmuch as it mentions no punishment and, therefore, specifies no legal infraction.)'

Going back to Ramadan, there are several reasons why it is practised. One of them is because it can engender in Muslims a sense of what people who are poor and hungry/thirsty go through. At the end of Ramadan a payment is made by those who can afford it (I think it is called Zakat al-Fitr) to enable the poor to celebrate Eid al-Fitr, the festival that follows.

An obligatory payment of Zakat is also made at other times if I remember rightly. And the recipients would be ‘poor residents of Islamic lands, [who] irrespective of religion, could expect to be entitled to a portion of the government’s zakat-revenues’.
 
Like Ramadan, Lent used to be a fast. Over time, the fast became a wider encompassing idea to abstain from anything over the 47 days, minus 7 Sundays, relating to Jesus’ supposed time in the desert and Moses’ supposed time up a mountain.

However, like most things you’ll find with the newer religions of Christianity and Islam, it has roots going back further in older religions and is related to the seasons and the Sun, and through necessity.

The word Lent is a Germanic word (Lencten in Old English, Lentin in Old Dutch, Lenzo in High Old German). It means ‘lengthen’, as in, the days are getting longer. Spring is starting. At this time of year for farming people, where food wasn’t as readily available after the Autumn harvest had been consumed over the Winter and livestock hadn’t given birth to their offspring yet, fasting may have been a necessity.

Fasting is seen as part of the oldest religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, and Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia. I think Buddha is supposed to have fasted for six years, at one time.
It was also seen practised in the Americas when Europeans first invaded.

Humans are genetically predisposed to fasting. When we were hunter gatherers, there could have been days without a catch so we’d have got by on things like nuts, berries and water. At some times of the year, nuts and berries don’t even grow in Northern Latitudes, so between catches we would have fasted. Our bodies will have adapted to this over hundreds of thousands of years.

Modern studies show that there are health benefits to fasting.
www.healthline.com

8 Health Benefits of Fasting, Backed by Science

From weight loss to improved blood sugar management, fasting can affect your health in many impressive ways. Learn 8 health benefits of fasting — backed by science.
www.healthline.com www.healthline.com

This is likely to be in relation to how we evolved as hunter gatherers to go without food, or at least big meals for periods of time, and our bodies adapting to it.

The idea of three staple meals a day being good for us should probably be seen as wrong now. Fasting is healthy, it’s like a recalibration of the body, and we’ve been doing it for about 99% of our existence as a species.

I’m not religious at all but after Pancake Day on Tuesday I will be doing to Carnivore Diet, abstaining from all sugars for Lent. Not because I’m trying to get closer to ‘god’ or owt, but just because it’s a good time of year to lose weight. So, like those practising Ramadan for the next month, will be in a healthier state come the end of it.

So, whatever we think of the idea of Ramadan (I find the idea of ‘gods’ archaic), our Muslim mates are doing something healthy and very normal for humans over the next month.
 
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Barcon said:
What's the purpose?
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Qur'an 2:183 "O believers! Fasting is prescribed for you, as it was for those before you, so perhaps you will become mindful ˹of Allah˺."

Unlike other laws of prohibition on alcohol or pork, fasting is a physical experience of a battle between the body and the soul, where the stomach/throat tells to have food/water, but the heart in submission to God tells "not until sunset". So, this is an opportunity for an entire month to have the heart in control, preparing oneself to be trained in controlling the desires.
 
ZenHalfTimeCrock said:
'The Qur’an shows evolution in its treatment of a few laws. It begins by forbidding Believers to come to prayers drunk, but later verses say there is more harm than good in alcohol. (It never did outlaw the latter, inasmuch as it mentions no punishment and, therefore, specifies no legal infraction.)'
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The prohibition on alcohol came in stages over a period of 15 years. The final verse of which was:
Qur'an 5:90 "O believers! Intoxicants, gambling, idols, and drawing lots for decisions are all evil of Satan’s handiwork. So shun them so you may be successful."

After this verse, there was a complete prohibition, and the Prophet and the earlier caliphs did punish for this sin. Jehangir or other Arab rulers are not the authorities in this matter.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 81, Number 767:
Narrated Anas: The Prophet lashed a drunk with dateleaf stalks and shoes. And Abu Bakr gave a drunk forty lashes.
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Is that the guy that played for Chicago Bulls, Dennis?
 
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters (kill non-muslims) wherever you find them and take them captive, and beseige them, and prepare for them each ambus. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful!

Qur'an chapter 9.5.

Like all man made religion Islam is a curse on mankind. But, of the 3 main abrahamic faiths it's teaching are the most by far the most barbaric.
 
dronefromsector7G said:
My daughter just said no Muslims drink alcohol as it’s against their religion. I said loads do, she said well they’re not true Muslims.

Welcome to religion.
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Muslims loke anyone can do anything like eat pork or drink acohol, but it is haram and so they are deemed unclean for I think is 3 days where they have to pray, like my mate Dave who was a jewish but liked a bacon butty on a saturday and would say fuck it its only one day a week, it is how much yyou are deeply faithful will make you choose to follow it all to the letter.
 
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Are the various strings of religious weirdos allowed to continue killing folk of other religious persuasion during these interlinked periods of lent/Ramadan etc?
 
C90 said:
I've been to Essaouira after been mithered in Marrakesh and getting on the bus after a few days. Much more relaxed and stayed in a lovely riad on the edge of town but still near the coast as the gulls divebombed me a few times at breakfast.

Got offered hashish (no), opium (no) then women (no) the only time I walked through the main drag (medina). Good long beach for walking on and exfoliating your feet in the sand.
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lucky you, i've never been offered women!

i used to get offered opium and hash,
but now my face is well-known they don't bother.
i've no interest in opium
(if i wanted to rest i'd smoke indica)
and the tourist hash is poor quality at silly prices.
 
calumdown said:
lucky you, i've never been offered women!

i used to get offered opium and hash,
but now my face is well-known they don't bother.
i've no interest in opium
(if i wanted to rest i'd smoke indica)
and the tourist hash is poor quality at silly prices.
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A couple of (Moroccan) friends bought some hash in Chefchaouen, smoked it, and crashed out for 8 hours. In the meantime, I went to hospital to get my arm x-rayed because I thought I'd broken it earlier. They didn't charge me, which was nice.
 
Brooklands Blue said:
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters (kill non-muslims) wherever you find them and take them captive, and beseige them, and prepare for them each ambus. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful!

Qur'an chapter 9.5.

Like all man made religion Islam is a curse on mankind. But, of the 3 main abrahamic faiths it's teaching are the most by far the most barbaric.
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A typical example of cherry-picking without the context.

The previous verse 9:4
"Excepted are those with whom you made a treaty among the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]."

The next verse 9:6 "And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know."

The verse after - 9:7 "How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

The verse after 9:8 "How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient."

9:10 "They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors."

It is clear from the context that verse 9:5 is talking about those who violated the treaty at that time, and not just any random non-Muslim anywhere. Have you seen any prophets in the Bible making peace treaties with the non-believers ?
Actually, the command in the Bible is not to make any treaties with the pagans.
Deuteronomy 7:2 "and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy."

Since, Islam is the most barbaric according to you, can you show one verse like this in the Qur'an ?. This is a Bible verse which Netanyahu quoted recently.
1 Samuel 15: 3 "Now go and attack the Amalekites and devote to destruction all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
 
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