Ref Watch

Out of interest , anyone watching the Wrexham v County game ? Only been 25 mins. One stonewall penalty not given, few offsides given that were very tight - home crowd absolutely furious with the officials.
It’s games like this that’s a reason why other lower leagues are calling for VAR - despite it being a shambles at times in the PL
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Thanks mate, very kind

To be fair it’s only the same few posters who don’t want to discuss VAR rationally on here. Tried my best to be fair and debate reasonably but has to come a point where I gave up - which i did and stated openly I was bowing out.

Not had that on any other thread so It’s not a slight against Bluemoon as a whole at all and still the best forum there is.

As for VAR - I still sway incompetence over corruption, add to the mix there’s so many grey areas and fans are so tribal it’s always going to be outrage in some games, I’ve always said no system will please, especially if we did actually scrap VAR for old way of officiating - I think in some respects VAR has highlighted how bad on-field refs are (whilst acknowledging how tough it must be to spot decisions at rapid speed) , also it’s forgotten just how much it does get right, how many clear offsides and pens given that wouldn’t have been before is quite mental.

Also, realistically it’s not going to be scrapped is it ? Every major league around the world now has VAR - lower league managers are wanting VAR - why ? When they can see how bad it operates at times in the PL ? Because they know how farcical on-field decisions are , we often forget just how bad it was pre VAR. Not saying we should accept it and glad the bad decisions are highlighted and scrutinised- I’m in the same angry camp when Walton and others try and brush off some awful VAR decisions.

Anyhow, totally fine for others to have the opposite opinion and I agree in some respects with the reasoning to scrap it completely, especially when you see those decisions go against Brighton, particularly also as many point out when a goal is scored you have that underlying gut feeling it’s going to be ruled out.

End of the day, majority of us just want wants what is fair and not to be robbed, my feeling is VAR has to constantly find ways to improve and it always has a chance too - the old way didn’t .

I won’t go round in circles and get dragged back in on this - and I know in a few weeks time when there’s controversy in another match I’ll be getting tagged in again, as if bad decisions are my fault lol. Cheers again though bud.
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My opinion is not disimilar to yours. When it comes to refereeing I don't think there is some kind of anti-city conspiracy... I think there's two fairly logical reasons some might perceive it that way. One, I think referees are often guilty of trying to 'even up' one-sided games and let the underdog off the hook, you see this a lot with the way yellow cards are distributed and how much time is added on. I think this is a bias most sports fans are guilty of, everybody likes an underdog. But we are never the underdog so we'll never benefit from that.

Then I think there is definitely a level of implicit and unconscious bias towards some 'legacy' teams, just as a result of the size of their fan base, it feels inevitable. There are a couple of referees in particular that I think are very suspect in this regard and the pattern of their decisions makes no sense to me.

With VAR, I agree, and I've said it on here before. People have short memories, if we were to remove it people would be clambering to get it back the moment somebody dives and wins a penalty or somebody is offside in the build up to a goal. Before VAR that happened several times a week. VAR does statistically get way more right than it gets wrong, but the wrong decisions dominate people's minds because of confirmation bias and how ridiculous some of them are.

It is not the tool that is the problem, it is the utterly woeful application of the tool by PGMOL and the generally poor quality of refereeing in this league. They probably couldn't have done a worse job. If it were up to me I would do three things to improve things:

1) They need to accelerate getting to fully automated offsides. The semi-automated World Cup ones were already way better and faster. It needs to get to a point where if somebody is offside it instantaneously buzzes the lino to raise his flag. Make it work based on AI rules training, it will be way better and more objective than any human official. This would remove the whole 'not knowing whether to celebrate' which people hate the most about VAR.

2) Give teams challenges like in other sports, give them two per game. They force the on-field referee to review the screen and honestly re-assess the incident (get rid of this utter nonsense of whenever they go to the screen = overturn the decision).

3) Introduce proper fucking timekeeping. An infant would have figured this bit out by now. I will keep ranting about this until it changes.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
My opinion is not disimilar to yours. When it comes to refereeing I don't think there is some kind of anti-city conspiracy... I think there's two fairly logical reasons some might perceive it that way. One, I think referees are often guilty of trying to 'even up' one-sided games and let the underdog off the hook, you see this a lot with the way yellow cards are distributed and how much time is added on. I think this is a bias most sports fans are guilty of, everybody likes an underdog. But we are never the underdog so we'll never benefit from that.

Then I think there is definitely a level of implicit and unconscious bias towards some 'legacy' teams, just as a result of the size of their fan base, it feels inevitable. There are a couple of referees in particular that I think are very suspect in this regard and the pattern of their decisions makes no sense to me.

With VAR, I agree, and I've said it on here before. People have short memories, if we were to remove it people would be clambering to get it back the moment somebody dives and wins a penalty or somebody is offside in the build up to a goal. Before VAR that happened several times a week. VAR does statistically get way more right than it gets wrong, but the wrong decisions dominate people's minds because of confirmation bias and how ridiculous some of them are.

It is not the tool that is the problem, it is the utterly woeful application of the tool by PGMOL and the generally poor quality of refereeing in this league. They probably couldn't have done a worse job. If it were up to me I would do three things to improve things:

1) They need to accelerate getting to fully automated offsides. The semi-automated World Cup ones were already way better and faster. It needs to get to a point where if somebody is offside it instantaneously buzzes the lino to raise his flag. Make it work based on AI rules training, it will be way better and more objective than any human official. This would remove the whole 'not knowing whether to celebrate' which people hate the most about VAR.

2) Give teams challenges like in other sports, give them two per game. They force the on-field referee to review the screen and honestly re-assess the incident (get rid of this utter nonsense of whenever they go to the screen = overturn the decision).

3) Introduce proper fucking timekeeping. An infant would have figured this bit out by now. I will keep ranting about this until it changes.
Click to expand...
Great points…
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
.

With VAR, I agree, and I've said it on here before. People have short memories, if we were to remove it people would be clambering to get it back the moment somebody dives and wins a penalty or somebody is offside in the build up to a goal. Before VAR that happened several times a week. VAR does statistically get way more right than it gets wrong, but the wrong decisions dominate people's minds because of confirmation bias and how ridiculous some of them are.
Click to expand...

It’s a point I was boringly making a lot .

I’m sat here watching this Wrexham v County game and some of the decisions have been really really bad, Wrexham had a stone wall penalty denied and at least 2 clear onsides given as offsides when they was through on goal. They find themselves 1-0 down. Surely ‘corruption’ right ?!

On your 1/2/3 point

1. I’m sure they’re working their best on this right now and will be in place within a couple years, let’s hope so. Would make the game it much better.

2. I’m not sure, what if a team is 1-0 up with 5 mins to go and use the challenges to time waste - asking the ref to check the monitor over a throw in decision or something ? Could be anarchy , but not 100% against it

3. Totally agree. The extra time at the World Cup seemed much closer to the real time which should be added on. It can’t be difficult to introduce.
 
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