Referees

[pauldominic]

I've been thinking about this and in my opinion they're far too quick to brandish cards.

If they were being consistent you would end up with 7 or 8 a side.

It's spoiling the game because as we all know they're having a colossal impact on the outcome of crucial matches.

I honestly can't remember the last a match was played without any cards being given to any players on either side and yet football is not a dirty game at all.

Anyone agree / disagree?

 

[Pigeonho]

The thing about it all is that every single decision that is made, we ALL have the benefit of slow mo, replays, debate and input from a panel etc etc etc. A ref has that split milisecond in which to make a decision, with 3 or 4 players barking at him, a crowd against him and pressure well and truly on his shoulders. They're paid for that, obviously and they will thrive on it but it can't be easy. I would say that put any one of us in their shoes and let incidents happen at the speed it does in the Premier League, we would come out and say 'fuck that for a game of soliders!'

They need more help in my opinion. The technology is there, we use it already as fans, and its time for that 4th official to actually have a role in the game other than hold up the little sign for added time and subs. He should be in a closed off room with all of the cameras we get to see, (and more), at his disposal and a direct communication link to the ref and his assistants. It's there, and it should be used.

 

[Pam]

I am suspicious of it all. I never used to be but now I'm not so sure. if it was merely a competence issues, then you would expect bad decisions to be eventually distributed over the course of the season but the old Sky Four are getting decision after decision . Meanwhile we are getting horrible decision after horrible decision and so are Spurs.

Chelsea V City - diabolical failure to give a stone wall penalty when were were one up at the Bridge.

Liverpool V City Part 1 - Balotelli getting a a second yellow card at Klanfield for absolutely fuck all.

City V Liverpool Part 2 - Gareth Barry getting a second yellow at ours for even less of an offence than Balotelli's second yellow.

City V Rags - well we all know what happened there. Twat of a cock up made worse by the so called independent panel's subsequent refusing to rescind (which could cost us big time.

City V Liverpool Part 3 - Glen Johnson. 'Nuff said.

And then there was the Sunderland offside.

Spurs meanwhile, were cheated blind at Stoke and again yesterday, apparently.

And then there's Lampard. He admitted himself that he should have had a straight red against Wolves but nothing was done by the FA after the event.

This whole thing needs to be addressed now, starting with the abolition of the stupid rule that there can be no retrospective ban for incidents the ref purported to have seen and made a wrong decision on. If you're going to ban Vinny, then ban Johnson and fucking Paul Scholes (after yesterday) and Ryan Giggs at ours.

It's happening too often, folks.

 

[samharris]

Was summed up best on Sunday Supplement of all places..

Todays prem referees are managing games at their whims rather than sticking to the letter of the law..

 

[pauldominic]

The thing about it all is that every single decision that is made, we ALL have the benefit of slow mo, replays, debate and input from a panel etc etc etc. A ref has that split milisecond in which to make a decision, with 3 or 4 players barking at him, a crowd against him and pressure well and truly on his shoulders. They're paid for that, obviously and they will thrive on it but it can't be easy. I would say that put any one of us in their shoes and let incidents happen at the speed it does in the Premier League, we would come out and say 'fuck that for a game of soliders!'

They need more help in my opinion. The technology is there, we use it already as fans, and its time for that 4th official to actually have a role in the game other than hold up the little sign for added time and subs. He should be in a closed off room with all of the cameras we get to see, (and more), at his disposal and a direct communication link to the ref and his assistants. It's there, and it should be used.

Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

 

[es1]

The thing about it all is that every single decision that is made, we ALL have the benefit of slow mo, replays, debate and input from a panel etc etc etc. A ref has that split milisecond in which to make a decision, with 3 or 4 players barking at him, a crowd against him and pressure well and truly on his shoulders. They're paid for that, obviously and they will thrive on it but it can't be easy. I would say that put any one of us in their shoes and let incidents happen at the speed it does in the Premier League, we would come out and say 'fuck that for a game of soliders!'

They need more help in my opinion. The technology is there, we use it already as fans, and its time for that 4th official to actually have a role in the game other than hold up the little sign for added time and subs. He should be in a closed off room with all of the cameras we get to see, (and more), at his disposal and a direct communication link to the ref and his assistants. It's there, and it should be used.

Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

 

[IH8MUFC]

Whats the point of technology. These idiots didn't even rescind Kompany's red card vs the rags with the help of it. Even with technology the rags, dippers, arsenal and chelski aka the $ky4 would get all the decisions.

 

[hgblue]

The thing about it all is that every single decision that is made, we ALL have the benefit of slow mo, replays, debate and input from a panel etc etc etc. A ref has that split milisecond in which to make a decision, with 3 or 4 players barking at him, a crowd against him and pressure well and truly on his shoulders. They're paid for that, obviously and they will thrive on it but it can't be easy. I would say that put any one of us in their shoes and let incidents happen at the speed it does in the Premier League, we would come out and say 'fuck that for a game of soliders!'

They need more help in my opinion. The technology is there, we use it already as fans, and its time for that 4th official to actually have a role in the game other than hold up the little sign for added time and subs. He should be in a closed off room with all of the cameras we get to see, (and more), at his disposal and a direct communication link to the ref and his assistants. It's there, and it should be used.

Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

4th official sat in front of a monitor and miked up so he can communicate with the on field referee.

 

[pauldominic]

The thing about it all is that every single decision that is made, we ALL have the benefit of slow mo, replays, debate and input from a panel etc etc etc. A ref has that split milisecond in which to make a decision, with 3 or 4 players barking at him, a crowd against him and pressure well and truly on his shoulders. They're paid for that, obviously and they will thrive on it but it can't be easy. I would say that put any one of us in their shoes and let incidents happen at the speed it does in the Premier League, we would come out and say 'fuck that for a game of soliders!'

They need more help in my opinion. The technology is there, we use it already as fans, and its time for that 4th official to actually have a role in the game other than hold up the little sign for added time and subs. He should be in a closed off room with all of the cameras we get to see, (and more), at his disposal and a direct communication link to the ref and his assistants. It's there, and it should be used.

Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

There are no more breaks in play with rugby and the 4th official could have a 2 way link to the referee when he sees something such as lampard's goal against germany or sunderlands player being a yard offside.

I'm willing to be corrected but wasn't Zidane sent off for a headbutt following an intervention from the 4th official.

 

[es1]

4th official sat in front of a monitor and miked up so he can communicate with the on field referee.
Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

So hes used for every decision?
Using tv replays to make a decision my take 30/60 seconds, do you stop play to review an incident? If so how will you restart play?? Who asks the 4th official to review a decision??

Playing devils advocate I know...

My idea is this.
A ref or manager can choose to review any decision, the ref can review as many as he wants, the manager 2 per half.

Example:

There's an incident that the manager wants reviewing, he immediately brings this to the attention of the ref who stops play.

A 5th official uses available tv camera angles to review decision.

The correct decision is then awarded, hopefully!

If the review was correct play is restarted accordingly, if the review was incorrect the opposing team is awarded an indirect free kick from where the ball wad when play was stopped

 

[hgblue]

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

So hes used for every decision?
Using tv replays to make a decision my take 30/60 seconds, do you stop play to review an incident? If so how will you restart play?? Who asks the 4th official to review a decision??

Playing devils advocate I know...

My idea is this.
A ref or manager can choose to review any decision, the ref can review as many as he wants, the manager 2 per half.

Example:

There's an incident that the manager wants reviewing, he immediately brings this to the attention of the ref who stops play.

A 5th official uses available tv camera angles to review decision.

The correct decision is then awarded, hopefully!

If the review was correct play is restarted accordingly, if the review was incorrect the opposing team is awarded an indirect free kick from where the ball wad when play was stopped

Referees work as a team. In my opinion, the same 4 referees should stay together all season, maybe alternating roles between on field referee, assistant and 4th official. The on field referee gives a decision as he sees fit, if he's unsure he can consult his assistant if he has a better view. or he can consult the 4th official. At any time the 4th official can intervene if he sees anything the on field referees have missed, or if the on field referees make a clear mistake (ie. ball crosses/doesn't cross the line, is the player onside/offside, was the foul inside/outside the box, was there contact or did the player dive, etc etc). The technology is there and it doesn't sound particularly complicated to me.

 

[es1]

Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

There are no more breaks in play with rugby and the 4th official could have a 2 way link to the referee when he sees something such as lampard's goal against germany or sunderlands player being a yard offside.

I'm willing to be corrected but wasn't Zidane sent off for a headbutt following an intervention from the 4th official.

No he wasn't, I've seen the refs report of the incident.
In rugby its only used for trys so its a bit different, where the game would usually stop anyway

 

[pauldominic]

The worst case scenario is that referee interventions over a season deny the championship to the best club which would be intolerable.

As far as I can see the only body that could have any positive sway over them would be the Department for Culture, Media and Sport and its select committee.

 

[es1]

So hes used for every decision?
Using tv replays to make a decision my take 30/60 seconds, do you stop play to review an incident? If so how will you restart play?? Who asks the 4th official to review a decision??

Playing devils advocate I know...

My idea is this.
A ref or manager can choose to review any decision, the ref can review as many as he wants, the manager 2 per half.

Example:

There's an incident that the manager wants reviewing, he immediately brings this to the attention of the ref who stops play.

A 5th official uses available tv camera angles to review decision.

The correct decision is then awarded, hopefully!

If the review was correct play is restarted accordingly, if the review was incorrect the opposing team is awarded an indirect free kick from where the ball wad when play was stopped

Referees work as a team. In my opinion, the same 4 referees should stay together all season, maybe alternating roles between on field referee, assistant and 4th official. The on field referee gives a decision as he sees fit, if he's unsure he can consult his assistant if he has a better view. or he can consult the 4th official. At any time the 4th official can intervene if he sees anything the on field referees have missed, or if the on field referees make a clear mistake (ie. ball crosses/doesn't cross the line, is the player onside/offside, was the foul inside/outside the box, was there contact or did the player dive, etc etc). The technology is there and it doesn't sound particularly complicated to me.

Ye fair plan, the only part I'm unsure of, implementation wise, would be where the 4th official intervenes without being prompted by the ref.

Also the linesmen are not qualified to ref prem games, but I get where you're coming from.
I believe there should be many more refs who are ranked based on their assessments (each prem ref, lino, is assessed by 2 ex refs per gameand given a mark out of 100) and the results used to rank refs in a table, the higher up you are the better games you get

 

[pauldominic]

So hes used for every decision?
Using tv replays to make a decision my take 30/60 seconds, do you stop play to review an incident? If so how will you restart play?? Who asks the 4th official to review a decision??

Playing devils advocate I know...

My idea is this.
A ref or manager can choose to review any decision, the ref can review as many as he wants, the manager 2 per half.

Example:

There's an incident that the manager wants reviewing, he immediately brings this to the attention of the ref who stops play.

A 5th official uses available tv camera angles to review decision.

The correct decision is then awarded, hopefully!

If the review was correct play is restarted accordingly, if the review was incorrect the opposing team is awarded an indirect free kick from where the ball wad when play was stopped

Referees work as a team. In my opinion, the same 4 referees should stay together all season, maybe alternating roles between on field referee, assistant and 4th official. The on field referee gives a decision as he sees fit, if he's unsure he can consult his assistant if he has a better view. or he can consult the 4th official. At any time the 4th official can intervene if he sees anything the on field referees have missed, or if the on field referees make a clear mistake (ie. ball crosses/doesn't cross the line, is the player onside/offside, was the foul inside/outside the box, was there contact or did the player dive, etc etc). The technology is there and it doesn't sound particularly complicated to me.

Great idea.

 

[mancunial]

Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

4th official sat in front of a monitor and miked up so he can communicate with the on field referee.

and me stood behind him with a baseball bat, that should even it up a bit!

 

[samharris]

The thing about it all is that every single decision that is made, we ALL have the benefit of slow mo, replays, debate and input from a panel etc etc etc. A ref has that split milisecond in which to make a decision, with 3 or 4 players barking at him, a crowd against him and pressure well and truly on his shoulders. They're paid for that, obviously and they will thrive on it but it can't be easy. I would say that put any one of us in their shoes and let incidents happen at the speed it does in the Premier League, we would come out and say 'fuck that for a game of soliders!'

They need more help in my opinion. The technology is there, we use it already as fans, and its time for that 4th official to actually have a role in the game other than hold up the little sign for added time and subs. He should be in a closed off room with all of the cameras we get to see, (and more), at his disposal and a direct communication link to the ref and his assistants. It's there, and it should be used.

Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

where are there natural breaks in play in rugby ??

 

[Deleted member 14625]

The thing about it all is that every single decision that is made, we ALL have the benefit of slow mo, replays, debate and input from a panel etc etc etc. A ref has that split milisecond in which to make a decision, with 3 or 4 players barking at him, a crowd against him and pressure well and truly on his shoulders. They're paid for that, obviously and they will thrive on it but it can't be easy. I would say that put any one of us in their shoes and let incidents happen at the speed it does in the Premier League, we would come out and say 'fuck that for a game of soliders!'

They need more help in my opinion. The technology is there, we use it already as fans, and its time for that 4th official to actually have a role in the game other than hold up the little sign for added time and subs. He should be in a closed off room with all of the cameras we get to see, (and more), at his disposal and a direct communication link to the ref and his assistants. It's there, and it should be used.

I agree. I've referee'd school rugby league matches and in every game I've not seen something that a decision has been needed for, a few times a match something has happened right I front of me where I've made a decision and someone from as told me afterwards "you got that wrong there", and I didn't have 30000 fans putting pressure on me like Prem ref's do.

If we were back in the 1930's, where there were 60/70/80000 going to watch football matches and there were no cameras at games and no MOTD at the night time because there was no television, we would all just take the ref's decision for what it was and get on with everything. Yet we don't allow the ref's (who still ref the game as if it was the 1930's themselves) to have that same grace. We watch replays of decisions all the time and then moan about the ref who hasn't seen a replay.

 

[es1]

Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

where are there natural breaks in play in rugby ??

Since the technology is only used for trys, there is always a break in play, as its not used in open play I ignored that part!

 

[Deleted member 14625]

The thing about it all is that every single decision that is made, we ALL have the benefit of slow mo, replays, debate and input from a panel etc etc etc. A ref has that split milisecond in which to make a decision, with 3 or 4 players barking at him, a crowd against him and pressure well and truly on his shoulders. They're paid for that, obviously and they will thrive on it but it can't be easy. I would say that put any one of us in their shoes and let incidents happen at the speed it does in the Premier League, we would come out and say 'fuck that for a game of soliders!'

They need more help in my opinion. The technology is there, we use it already as fans, and its time for that 4th official to actually have a role in the game other than hold up the little sign for added time and subs. He should be in a closed off room with all of the cameras we get to see, (and more), at his disposal and a direct communication link to the ref and his assistants. It's there, and it should be used.

Agree 100%. Other sports do it so why can't football.

The question you need to ask is how do we do it in football??
Football is not like cricket, tennis, rugby etc where there are natural breaks in play. What would the procedure be for using video technology in football??

Football is no different to rugby league. The only breaks in play you get is scrummaging and penalty/conversion kicks - the time it takes to set up and perform a scrum in RL takes no more time than setting up a wall in footy; the time it takes to kick the ball over the sticks in RL takes no more time than a goalkeeper taking a goal kick or a penalty being taken from the 12yd spot in footy. Both games are fast flowing games. Yet RL pioneered video refereeing and football is officiated like it was in the 1930's. Also in RL players are treated on the pitch as okay goes on, sometimes they play on injured so they don't hinder their teams play; in footy players roll around on the floor like 50000 volts are being electricuted into them and they'll stay down to stop play when there's absolutely nowt up with them.

When a ref makes a decision in footy, sometimes it will take two minutes from when the decision is made, then all the players will charge around him and push and above each other and the ref will book two or three or have a word, before play resumes. In that time the ref can blow his whistle and say "video ref, have a look at that for me" and the video ref can take twenty second to look at something and play can continue - and you get the added plus of the right decision having been made.