Reform 2025 Limited new name same business

Tactical voting is different, and make sense when getting rid of tories

As for liberalism in the UK is has always been a soft/centre right ideology of non conformism and free trade with social reform that is good for buisness and the markets

Liberalism in europe has normelly been the term for such as the republican movements of france, italy and belgium

In the US liberal is used for the left and with social media now where the confusion of calling britsh left as liberal which is frankly offensive to me ;-)
 
mexico1970 said:
They probably misunderstand what's meant by left, the point that not many if any lefties vote Tory was the point and the point stands.

Hobbyist amateur political observers don't see the car before it hits them.
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Don’t you find it weird that your definitions of left and liberal don’t make any sense and you keep having to repeat that everyone else is wrong?
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Don’t you find it weird that your definitions of left and liberal don’t make any sense and you keep having to repeat that everyone else is wrong?
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confusing American politics I reckon, which is a lot of the problems we are having with the state of our politics here, the influx of thier batshit bullshit through social media and insistance of populism over policy has turn our once sensible democratic process into a side show of shitness from every party
 
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urban genie said:
confusing American politics I reckon, which is a lot of the problems we are having with the state of our politics here, the influx of thier batshit bullshit through social media and insistance of populism over policy has turn pur once sensible democratic process into a side show of shitness from every party
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Is this really just an echo chamber or is that a rumour? How many lefties do you know who would vote Tory? How many lefties do you know who would vote Lib Dems or Labour?

Answers on a postcard instead of pontificating to your politically cloned brethren.
 
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Alan Harper's Tash said:
Don’t you find it weird that your definitions of left and liberal don’t make any sense and you keep having to repeat that everyone else is wrong?
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The solution to his problem is to visit a local library and read a book. Although he'd probably end up requesting Mein Kampf and a copy of Razzle.
 
mexico1970 said:
Is this really just an echo chamber or is that a rumour, how many lefties do you know who would vote Tory, how many lefties do you know who would vote Lib Dems or Labour?

Answers on a postcard instead of pontificating to your politically cloned brethren.
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Have a look at the red wall, that turned blue. Your “South African” mate on here is an example.

Try to respond without referring your cliches of echo chamber, little che, liberal nonsense.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Have a look at the red wall, that turned blue. Your “South African” mate on here is an example.

Try to respond without referring your cliches of echo chamber, little che, liberal nonsense.
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How many lib dems switch to Tory was the question asked, you haven't got an answer to it. This IS an echo chamber and you are just a follower of it.

You're not even a mini Che Dibley.

Tag @blueinsa if you mention him instead of waffling on about “South African” mate on here.
 
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mexico1970 said:
How many lib dems switch to Tory was the question asked, you haven't got an answer to it. This IS an echo chamber and you are just a follower of it.

You're not even a mini Che Dibley.
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I know I’m not. It’s why the barb is meaningless.

You’re the real truth seeker here, we can all see that. Russell Brand type truth seeking. Populist, shallow, negative, scorched earth thinking.
 
mexico1970 said:
Is this really just an echo chamber or is that a rumour? How many lefties do you know who would vote Tory? How many lefties do you know who would vote Lib Dems or Labour?

Answers on a postcard instead of pontificating to your politically cloned brethren.
Click to expand...
Personally I know no lefties, either labour members/voters present or past or not who would vote tory or lib dem in any circumstance.

but then most people I know don't live in marginals where tactical voting has ever been a ncessity, few mates in bury where even if you are not happy with labour you vote them of get a tory and nobody should ever want a tory.


I have relatives around the country who will always vote for the unionist party so Tory or DUP, but they would never vote labour, not even now with starmers union flag waving
 
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mexico1970 said:
How many lib dems switch to Tory was the question asked, you haven't got an answer to it. This IS an echo chamber and you are just a follower of it.

You're not even a mini Che Dibley.

Tag @blueinsa if you mention him instead of waffling on about “South African” mate on here.
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Add snide late editing to your cuntishness. I didn’t tag him as I didn’t think he’d need or want to respond.
 
urban genie said:
Tactical voting is different, and make sense when getting rid of tories

As for liberalism in the UK is has always been a soft/centre right ideology of non conformism and free trade with social reform that is good for buisness and the markets

Liberalism in europe has normelly been the term for such as the republican movements of france, italy and belgium

In the US liberal is used for the left and with social media now where the confusion of calling britsh left as liberal which is frankly offensive to me ;-)
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While that is all true I don’t think you can then extend that to a catch-all statement like “no lefties vote Lib Dem”. I think that’s just down to firstly how you define “a leftie”, secondly how much said leftie weighs economic versus social issues, and finally what policies they are actually offering. I believe in things like the EU and the freedom of movement that confers, but that’s not necessarily compatible with a Labour government’s view. But I am also a social democrat who wants to see a strong welfare state. So who do I vote for in this situation in 2019, say? The people who promote social progressivism and freedom of the labour market? Or the people who want to implement “big government” policies? These aren’t contradictory positions and I can tell you it wasn’t an easy choice.

The manifesto and policy history of Labour and Lib Dem are not so easily disentangled and there are loads of situations where an economic leftie will prefer to vote Lib Dem because they philosophically see some policy as worth the trade off for a moderate-centrist economic party who won’t rock the boat or do too much damage to the welfare state. Not everybody is socialism or bust.

I am by pretty much any useful measure - “a leftie” (just ask @mexico1970). I weigh social progressivism and personal freedoms extremely heavily in my considerations. There have been years where my policy preference has aligned more to Labour, and some where it has aligned to Lib Dem. But it has never aligned to Conservatives because they are a socially regressive party. They had a moment where they pretended to be progressive with Cameron but it’s always countered by decreases in things like social mobility.

Voting for a party is never a perfect fit for an individual. It nearly always requires some compromise.
 
urban genie said:
Tactical voting is different, and make sense when getting rid of tories

As for liberalism in the UK is has always been a soft/centre right ideology of non conformism and free trade with social reform that is good for buisness and the markets

Liberalism in europe has normelly been the term for such as the republican movements of france, italy and belgium

In the US liberal is used for the left and with social media now where the confusion of calling britsh left as liberal which is frankly offensive to me ;-)
Click to expand...

Lib Dem’s are centre / centre-left. By all means show me their right wing policies
 
metalblue said:
Lib Dem’s are centre / centre-left. By all means show me their right wing policies
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centrists by all means but not left.

Economically their belief in the private sector aligns with right wing politics as does their free market philosophy and belief in a smaller state

socially you could say they lean more left than right
 
Meanwhile on the comment page on MuEN on line
@ASKdes types …. Forage was the best candidate out of the six !! Sums up the whole shit show of reform supporters.
 
metalblue said:
Lib Dem’s are centre / centre-left. By all means show me their right wing policies
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They were quite happy to serve in the austerity coalition.

Osborne was clear that cutting the state was a political decision, with the "crowding out" philosophy, and I don't remember many complaints from the Lib Dems.
 
The 'Orange Book' Liberals were pretty right on economics and would have fitted well with Thatcher. Not all Lib-Dems are like that by any means, just as most of Labour is not socialist but social democratic at best.

The Lib-Dems have consistently been big on individual freedom (including for the rights of minorities) and for Europe, including within that a strong sense of subsidiarity, as opposed to a purely unitary UK state.

I can see how at least some of them got on with Cameron's Toryism.
 
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