Reform 2025 Limited new name same business

Seems Reform will reduce immigration to net zero and raise funds by heavily taxing employers who use immigrant labour. Notwithstanding the inherent contradiction, the employer that will have priority on whatever immigration labour we do have will be the NHS which is funded by the (checks notes) the taxpayer.

Although, Reform would abolish the NHS - its been a long standing ambition of the fascist ****.
 
inbetween said:
They have offered to cancel HS2 which itself will free up potentially £50bn. Reform's policies are actually quite sensible and measured in places, the only thing I really disagree with them on is immigration. Whether they could actually enact their policies is another thing but sensibilities have never been an issue at elections.

I think they're going to do much better than many think.
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Agree with your last sentence. There is no shortage of gullible people who will buy into a fantasy as demonstrated in numerous elections around the world where snake oil salesmen have promised the earth. The one thing they all have in common is that they will inevitably fail to deliver on their promises.
 
Toad of Toad Hall is a pedlar of bullshit.

How in God's name are people taken in by something so obvious? Do they respond to 'Nigerian Princes' too?

Maybe people are just fucking desperate and will grasp any rope, even if it turns out to be a very long shit.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
You agree with scrapping net zero and drilling for more oil and gas?
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Partially because do you think that net zero can even be achieved? Net-zero also means that our total emissions won't increase but they won't decrease either. To impact climate change we need to decrease total emissions and how is that physically going to happen anytime soon regardless of the targets we set?

UK emissions have fallen but anybody could easily argue that all we have done is exported our emissions to another country so it hasn't actually gone down at all. All of our manufacturing for example is now done in China but are we buying less from China? It's the opposite, so unless China reduces its emissions or we buy and consume less then nothing changes.

I'm not arguing to burn the planet to the ground by the way, we just need to be realistic.

At this point I think any efforts to stop climate change are pointless because the world is growing rapidly and it's far outgrowing any efforts to halt climate change. We'd be far better off at this stage mitigating climate change. For example if there will be more floods then we should invest in more flood defences.

You only have to look at this graph, we need that graph to go downwards fast and preferably right this second now, but it isn't going to is it?

global-co2-emissions.jpg
 
Don't matter what reform offer Labour will be the government for at least the next 10 years when they win it..

Either conservative will end up being the 3d party or just disappear and reform will be the 2nd main party or reform will disappear..
 
waspish said:
Don't matter what reform offer Labour will be the government for at least the next 10 years when they win it..

Either conservative will end up being the 3d party or just disappear and reform will be the 2nd main party or reform will disappear..
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Should be, I agree, but given how spectacularly the Conservatives have managed to lose what appeared to be an insurmountable two-term majority, one can never tell.
 
Gabriel said:
Should be, I agree, but given how spectacularly the Conservatives have managed to lose what appeared to be an insurmountable two-term majority, one can never tell.
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It seems hard to imagine now but I think a second term won’t be a shoo-in for Labour given the state of what they’ll inherit- they’ll become unpopular quite quickly because they’re going to have to do some really tough things. The Lib - Dems may benefit and the current Tories will be destroyed in the aftermath of this election. Whatever happens it will be fascinating.
 
Rory Bluelow said:
It seems hard to imagine now but I think a second term won’t be a shoo-in for Labour given the state of what they’ll inherit- they’ll become unpopular quite quickly because they’re going to have to do some really tough things. The Lib - Dems may benefit and the current Tories will be destroyed in the aftermath of this election. Whatever happens it will be fascinating.
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Impossible to predict, for sure.
 
waspish said:
Don't matter what reform offer Labour will be the government for at least the next 10 years when they win it..

Either conservative will end up being the 3d party or just disappear and reform will be the 2nd main party or reform will disappear..
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I'd agree that Labour have a very good chance of at least two terms, but there's a lot more volatility in voting these days, which means it's not guaranteed. Up till the late 80s, only about 20% of people changed their vote election to election. That jumped in the 90s, and in the 2017 election, was well over 40%. With Reform this time, I'd expect that to go even higher, so you have a huge amount of people who don't vote tribally, and that makes 10 years a but trickier.

I'd be amazed if Reform do take over the the Tories though. Reform voters are significantly more extreme in their views - they're the right wing of the right wing. Never say never, as I know from my daughter that Farage does a lot of tiktoks aimed at young people, where he tones down the right wing stuff dramatically, so he may be able to move a little to the centre, but I'm not convinced.

I think it's more likely that the Tories will gradually take votes from the centre, than more Tories head rightwards.
 
waspish said:
Don't matter what reform offer Labour will be the government for at least the next 10 years when they win it..

Either conservative will end up being the 3d party or just disappear and reform will be the 2nd main party or reform will disappear..
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It depends how Labour handle actual power and certainly how Starmer tempers the membership. They're still fighting on a war election footing but the war is basically won so they need to start planning policy very quickly.

The election itself has echoes of 1997 where the Tories similarly imploded. Blair went on to perhaps be the best modern PM we've ever had. Will Starmer do the same? I'm not quite sure.

I don't think that Reform will exist in a few months. All that is going to happen is Farage will win his seat and he'll then be very well placed to pressure a pact with the Tories. Farage then becomes the opposition for the next few years, he'll likely then quit as a suitable leader is sought with the same values for the next election.
 
bluenova said:
I'd agree that Labour have a very good chance of at least two terms, but there's a lot more volatility in voting these days, which means it's not guaranteed. Up till the late 80s, only about 20% of people changed their vote election to election. That jumped in the 90s, and in the 2017 election, was well over 40%. With Reform this time, I'd expect that to go even higher, so you have a huge amount of people who don't vote tribally, and that makes 10 years a but trickier.

I'd be amazed if Reform do take over the the Tories though. Reform voters are significantly more extreme in their views - they're the right wing of the right wing. Never say never, as I know from my daughter that Farage does a lot of tiktoks aimed at young people, where he tones down the right wing stuff dramatically, so he may be able to move a little to the centre, but I'm not convinced.

I think it's more likely that the Tories will gradually take votes from the centre, than more Tories head rightwards.
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There must be the factor of Farage having a heart attack too. He hardly looks after himself and will be 65 in 2030.
 
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