Reform 2025 Limited new name same business

west didsblue said:
When the Salisbury poisonings happened Corbyn went out on a limb to suggest it wouldn’t be the Russians. He only wound his neck in when the security services released pictures and videos of the fully identified Russians on their day trip to Salisbury.
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So, when presented with the evidence he came to the correct conclusion?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
He's nothing to me bobert. Not sure why you need to imagine everyone fits into a few neat and simple boxes in your own head? There are certainly plenty of things about farage that are disturbing and disingenuous, and his ability to package some fairly extreme views into a palatable 'man of the people' package possibly makes him a worry.
I think the collapse of the big two party's is the real problem. The Tories obviously, but also the hollowing out of Labour into a vacuous neo-liberal project leaves the poor and disenfranchised vulnerable to extremism and populism.
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I did enjoy ‘the hollowing out of Labour into a vacuous neo-liberal project’ word salad.

Fuckers aren’t even in Govt yet and you’re already angling to blame them for the rise of some authoritarian weirdo. Sometimes you try to hard with the bad faith arguments and takes. You should let people know what you really think and want for a change.
 
Generally, the far left and the far right have more in common than you'd think, to the point where they're holding hands on some issues e.g. Brexit.
 
currently there is a twitter fight between Farage and Johnson about who first blamed the Russian invasion of Ukraine on Ukraine and not Putin .......... this election is the most mental one ever - hoping for a period of steady as she goes Politics please
 
hcblue95 said:
Corbyn has repeatedly criticised Putin over the years.
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Fair point.

Equally, his comments about not sending arms to Ukraine in the guise of a call for peace was a misjudgment and misread of Putin’s ambitions. He was also a signatory of ‘All who care’ which called for Ukraines neutrality and the immediate end of arms to Ukraine. Aside from this being somewhat high handed in excluding the Ukrainians from deciding what they would like for themselves, it only called for phased withdrawal of Russian troops. It was in effect an invitation to Russia to occupy Ukraine.

And then there is Seamus Milne and Ukraine.

I’ll stick with my view on the far right and far left being in accord with their stance on Ukraine.

Also I think we are in the wrong thread for this discussion :)
 
bluethrunthru said:
currently there is a twitter fight between Farage and Johnson about who first blamed the Russian invasion of Ukraine on Ukraine and not Putin .......... this election is the most mental one ever - hoping for a period of steady as she goes Politics please
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Starmer being as boring as fuck can’t come quickly enough :)
 
BobKowalski said:
I did enjoy ‘the hollowing out of Labour into a vacuous neo-liberal project’ word salad.

Fuckers aren’t even in Govt yet and you’re already angling to blame them for the rise of some authoritarian weirdo. Sometimes you try to hard with the bad faith arguments and takes. You should let people know what you really think and want for a change.
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I did say exactly what I think, you just don't like it and have no actual opinions of your own. Just a long list of things you don't like and a fluffed up sense of self worth. Essentially bobert, you are a bit of a bigot.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I did say exactly what I think, you just don't like it and have no actual opinions of your own. Just a long list of things you don't like and a fluffed up sense of self worth. Essentially bobert, you are a bit of a bigot.
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First time I’ve been accused of having no actual opinions. Most people hate my fucking opinions.

Also, no idea how this squares with having a long list of things I don’t like, which kind of sounds like a list of opinions. Mind you, it is a fucking long list.
 
bluethrunthru said:
currently there is a twitter fight between Farage and Johnson about who first blamed the Russian invasion of Ukraine on Ukraine and not Putin .......... this election is the most mental one ever - hoping for a period of steady as she goes Politics please
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I think we need to be careful (wether it's Johnson, Corby, farage or whoever) that we separate saying something caused Putin to act as he has in Russia from saying it justified it. Expansion of the EU, NATO, the Eurovision song contest or whatever may have been a factor, but I don't think anyone has actually said it was a justification or has made what Putin has done 'right'? A small and perhaps pedantic point, but interesting to see how these things are spun as support for Russia.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I think we need to be careful (wether it's Johnson, Corby, farage or whoever) that we separate saying something caused Putin to act as he has in Russia from saying it justified it. Expansion of the EU, NATO, the Eurovision song contest or whatever may have been a factor, but I don't think anyone has actually said it was a justification or has made what Putin has done 'right'? A small and perhaps pedantic point, but interesting to see how these things are spun as support for Russia.
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Farage's argument is that whatever Putin has done we must still work with Russia and to a degree that is arguably true because we are hurting ourselves. We should always try to work with Russia but at the moment we can't accept what Putin has done and that's what Farage does not understand.

It's important to make the distinction that Russia did not invade Ukraine, Putin did. It also happened in 2014 and not in 2022, this has been a 10 year war which continued to occur whilst Trump was in power (and he did nothing). I feel sorry for Russians who have been caught up in this. They never wanted this war but they had no choice because unfortunately they have a gangster in charge who kills anybody that disagrees.

People like Farage or Trump are not interested in Russia, they like Putin. They value shows of nationalistic and isolationist strength and Putin has put across that false image for many years. If they valued Russia above Putin then they'd realise that Russia is suffering at the hands of Putin.

I'm hopeful that one day Russia will be liberated, it should be a fantastic and important European country connecting east with west like Turkey has become but for many years it has suffered to the extremes at the hands of its own politicians and political ideologies.

I can only see it getting worse and unfortunately that's where we have to put ourselves and the defence of ourselves and our allies first. Farage must understand this and he couldn't be more wrong if he doesn't.
 
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