Reform 2025 Limited new name same business

BlueHammer85 said:
Wales isn’t ‘fucked’ , such a baseless pathetic statement.
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Let’s have it right, 14 years has been spent proclaiming the UK to be a basket case and Labour has spent its first few months talking the Nation and its finances down so why the sudden change from you?

Unless of course it’s time to admit the 14 years of “we are fucked” was baseless and pathetic?

Times are tough but it’s still one of the best places in the world to live and work regardless of who the government is.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Brexit has probably done more economic damage to Wales then anything in its recent history - but hey, let’s protest and vote for .. Farage. Can’t make it up.
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Wasn’t Wales the country recipient of most regeration EU funding before we left?

If not the most, it was certainly high up the list.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I agree but, If I have left leaning views who, if there is no chance of me voting Labour should I vote for.

The only chance of de throning Labour in Wales is Reform. I know Reform are far away as possible from my ideals but Labour have been in for 25 years and absolutely devastated Wales. They have to be rid of.
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My mums side of the family are all from Wales and I don’t think they share the same level of vitriol as you. Any party in for that long and I get it though.

I’d look at that link and see what it says. Wouldn’t surprise me if it suggests the greens for you.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Brexit has probably done more economic damage to Wales then anything in its recent history - but hey, let’s protest and vote for .. Farage. Can’t make it up.
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It was the same dissafection and protest vote that delivered Starmer his labour landslide. It's up to labour to improve the day to day existence of the electorate and demonstrate that they can offer a better future. Otherwise we'll just continue to lurch from one option to the other at successive GE's.
Unfortunately the tragic state of the Tory party and the cynicism of the Labour offering are opening the door to farage etc. we tend to focus on trying to rid ourselves of farage and reform, but if the Tories and now Labour found a way to just do a better job and improve our lives then I'm sure farage/reform would vanish as quickly as they appeared.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
It was the same dissafection and protest vote that delivered Starmer his labour landslide. It's up to labour to improve the day to day existence of the electorate and demonstrate that they can offer a better future. Otherwise we'll just continue to lurch from one option to the other at successive GE's.
Unfortunately the tragic state of the Tory party and the cynicism of the Labour offering are opening the door to farage etc. we tend to focus on trying to rid ourselves of farage and reform, but if the Tories and now Labour found a way to just do a better job and improve our lives then I'm sure farage/reform would vanish as quickly as they appeared.
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Would help if this wasn’t happening.

IMG_3813.jpeg
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Would help if this wasn’t happening.

View attachment 153677
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Nobody said govt was easy - Starmer wanted the job etc.
When was the last time we had a government that actually performed well and delivered? - probably Blair prior to the Iraq adventure.
If the best Labour can do in 4 years time is shrug their shoulders and point at trump/Brexit etc then they don't deserve to govern and will open the door to farage.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Nobody said govt was easy - Starmer wanted the job etc.
When was the last time we had a government that actually performed well and delivered? - probably Blair prior to the Iraq adventure.
If the best Labour can do in 4 years time is shrug their shoulders and point at trump/Brexit etc then they don't deserve to govern and will open the door to farage.
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Blair was a bit of misnomer though, he was able to spend because he inherited a period where we had much less debt and growth was far more sensitive to things like trade. Nowadays the actions of the UK government are virtually irrelevant to the economy because they don't control any aspect of it. They actually only answer to big finance and not the other way around, 2008 proved that.

We were also a part of Europe when it was strong whereas today the EU is nothing more than a lifeboat which at best is doing no better than we are.

I think this sentiment is the reason for many of the problems that we now have in society. It's certainly why Brexit happened and that is being felt everywhere on the continent. The future feels bleak for many and when that happens they're always going to resort to blame and immigrants will always be the first target. There's a conversation to be had when somebody spends an increasing amount of £bn's on asylum but less and less on the home population.

Doing what Blair did is now impossible if we're to subscribe to a fiscal rules way of doing things because there is no room to do anything else. I'm not a Corbynite and far from a socialist but the only person to come along and challenge that is Corbyn which is probably why big media and finance took him down.

The rest are basically the same and Farage et al. are even worse but they're here to stay because the population has completely lost its trust in mainstream politics.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Nationalisation of key industries (Gas, Electric, Water, Telecommunications)
Nationalisation of National Rail Network
Nationalisation of Steel Industry

Bring Busses under Council Control and establish a "National footprint" for bus operators - equal services nationally
Link pension and benefits to taxation. (anyone in higher tax bracket cannot receive things like tax credits, WFA etc..)
Review taxation (increase tax on very high earnings/income say anything over £10m/year pay 65% + tax)
Increase Corporation tax on profitable.

There you go.... counting the first entry as four - that gives us an opening gambit of 10..... Have I got our vote?
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Well it's certainly an interesting list for a Reform voter!
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I agree but, If I have left leaning views who, if there is no chance of me voting Labour should I vote for.

The only chance of de throning Labour in Wales is Reform. I know Reform are far away as possible from my ideals but Labour have been in for 25 years and absolutely devastated Wales. They have to be rid of.
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For once I'm almost speechless. The lack of rationality is staggering.
 
hampshireblue said:
Well it's certainly an interesting list for a Reform voter!
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You ain't the first to make that observation.

My vote is about not supporting any of the current crop of incumbents to the point of destruction... self destruction if you like, so I am not voting for Reform I am voting to get Labour out. The only party capable of doing that in Wales is Reform.

Many on here cannot comprehend that. I can and I do and so that is how i will vote.

I really cannot understand why people need to get abusive and aggressive if anone dares have an opinion that differs to their own. It's like they're right and everyone that disagrees with them is wrong... It's almost like democracy is an affront to them.

But yes, I understand how my vote would be and is at odds to the party I would like to support... there was an attempt at a discussion around this the other day.... again all to no avail. You see, I'm not entitled to an opinion and should know my place and get back in the corner... lol.
 
inbetween said:
Blair was a bit of misnomer though, he was able to spend because he inherited a period where we had much less debt and growth was far more sensitive to things like trade. Nowadays the actions of the UK government are virtually irrelevant to the economy because they don't control any aspect of it. They actually only answer to big finance and not the other way around, 2008 proved that.

We were also a part of Europe when it was strong whereas today the EU is nothing more than a lifeboat which at best is doing no better than we are.

I think this sentiment is the reason for many of the problems that we now have in society. It's certainly why Brexit happened and that is being felt everywhere on the continent. The future feels bleak for many and when that happens they're always going to resort to blame and immigrants will always be the first target. There's a conversation to be had when somebody spends an increasing amount of £bn's on asylum but less and less on the home population.

Doing what Blair did is now impossible if we're to subscribe to a fiscal rules way of doing things because there is no room to do anything else. I'm not a Corbynite and far from a socialist but the only person to come along and challenge that is Corbyn which is probably why big media and finance took him down.

The rest are basically the same and Farage et al. are even worse but they're here to stay because the population has completely lost its trust in mainstream politics.
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^^Absofuckinglutely this^^

The problem is.... what can we do about it? Vote for more of the same? I don't think so.
 
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hampshireblue said:
For once I'm almost speechless. The lack of rationality is staggering.
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The rationale is really quite simple..... There is fuck all else to vote for and we need change... desperately we need change. I know knickers are getting in a twist around here about this, but these people who feel this way cannot offer any alternatives accept the shit state we're in and the downward spiral we're on or try summat else...

I tell you what... PR might be a good idea.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
The rationale is really quite simple..... There is fuck all else to vote for and we need change... desperately we need change. I know knickers are getting in a twist around here about this, but these people who feel this way cannot offer any alternatives accept the shit state we're in and the downward spiral we're on or try summat else...

I tell you what... PR might be a good idea.
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PR got put to bed by Cameron with his electoral reform referendum - we all got a leaflet to every home telling us that if we voted for electoral reform the country would be ruined by perpetual hung parliaments.
Hung parliaments may not be great, but possibly no worse than this and the last majority government.
PR would probably see the far right get more seats, but would probably also ensure they never get a working majority. We would have coalition govts (oddly enough like the one that warned us away from pr in that referendum) which is probably what we will end up with after the next ge anyway with the Tories and farage.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
The rationale is really quite simple..... There is fuck all else to vote for and we need change... desperately we need change. I know knickers are getting in a twist around here about this, but these people who feel this way cannot offer any alternatives accept the shit state we're in and the downward spiral we're on or try summat else...

I tell you what... PR might be a good idea.
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I agree with your last point. I have close family members who are Welsh and others who live in Wales too. I don't get the level of animosity towards Labour from them that you express. Just to help us understand, what are your major gripes with Labour in Wales?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
The rationale is really quite simple..... There is fuck all else to vote for and we need change... desperately we need change. I know knickers are getting in a twist around here about this, but these people who feel this way cannot offer any alternatives accept the shit state we're in and the downward spiral we're on or try summat else...

I tell you what... PR might be a good idea.
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There’s cutting your nose off to spite your face and there’s blowing your brains out because your nose has been cut off.

This is why no one can debate this subject, because your stance doesn’t make any logical sense that could help the country in any way.

It’s get Labour out, however much irreparable damage is done to the country.

You won’t change your stance and we will never understand it, so therefore you return each day saying the same thing to other people who cannot understand your logic.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
There’s cutting your nose off to spite your face and there’s blowing your brains out because your nose has been cut off.

This is why no one can debate this subject, because your stance doesn’t make any logical sense that could help the country in any way.

It’s get Labour out, however much irreparable damage is done to the country.

You won’t change your stance and we will never understand it, so therefore you return each day saying the same thing to other people who cannot understand your logic.
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I have no idea why everyone is wasting their time worrying about one vote from some anonymous account.
 
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