Reform 2025 Limited new name same business

[BigJoe#1]

I think you are forgetting the roles Tice and Farage played in getting us where we are now. 4% off GDP-now I wonder what that would do for the economy of Wales.

Nice try.... but I'm not certain.

Perhaps you might like to expand on your theory? I'd be interested to learn what influence they have had on the British Government.

Cheers

 

[BlueHammer85]

Nice try.... but I'm not certain.

Perhaps you might like to expand on your theory? I'd be interested to learn what influence they have had on the British Government.

Cheers

Really ??! Did you hear about something called Brexit ?

 

[BigJoe#1]

Probably because most of us don't understand the logic.

But isn't it the case that the next council elections in Wales are not until 2027, and you've already decided on Reform.

Isn't it also the case that the next Senned election is in 2026 and there will be a form of PR introduced by the very Labour government that has done nothing good except give free prescriptions?

The bottom line is that a Labour Government that's on the bones of its arse and complains bitterly that it has no money and is cutting services (like school busses for example) that were pretty sparse anyway, is increasing the number of Senedd members by 60%. That in itself is obscene and abhorrent.

We do not need additional members. It would be great if they were proposing PR in the current structure. They're not. They're creating another level of vote which means there will be bigger seats that will be subject to some kind of proportional representation. Meddling or gerrymandering at best either way manipulation to secure their own futures.

If you read my posts carefully I have said my vote is a protest against Labour. At the moment Reform is most likely in my constituency to out Labour. If that changes as a result of the English elections, then it's highly likely my vote will change too.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Really ??! Did you hear about something called Brexit ?

Yesh I've heard of Brexit... so you're blaming the state of the country on Brexit, the will of the people - Really? The Tories and then Labour have been in control, before and after Brexit. Suppose if you can divert the argument... carry on. It's pointless.

 

[meltonblue]

There’s nothing anyone can say to stop people voting Reform.

They have to experience the utter chaos before beginning to realise what they will have done.

Make sure you and your family and friends are okay and let the chickens come home to roost.

Agree with this. There’s quite a few people voting reform with the sentiment of “well, they can’t be any worse”.

I’d have thought looking at how their MPs have done so far would have been enough to put most people off, but how people judge political parties and who deserves their vote doesn’t seem to follow the same thought processes as it used to, which is why it’s so hard to combat until they get into positions of actual power.

Like you say, we’re going to have to experience it to realise just how wrong that sentiment can be.

 

[hilts]

Tell it to the poster who referred to it.

I'm fine thanks.

 

[inbetween]

Agree with this. There’s quite a few people voting reform with the sentiment of “well, they can’t be any worse”.

I’d have thought looking at how their MPs have done so far would have been enough to put most people off, but how people judge political parties and who deserves their vote doesn’t seem to follow the same thought processes as it used to, which is why it’s so hard to combat until they get into positions of actual power.

Like you say, we’re going to have to experience it to realise just how wrong that sentiment can be.

I've just watched the Channel 4 debate on Youtube.

On that viewing I understand why people might vote for Reform, I wholeheartedly understand why most people won't even bother and it completely baffles me how anybody finds the energy to vote for any of the mainstream parties.

 

[meltonblue]

I've just watched the Channel 4 debate on Youtube.

On that viewing I understand why people might vote for Reform, I wholeheartedly understand why most people won't even bother and it completely baffles me how anybody finds the energy to vote for any of the mainstream parties.

Which debate is that?

Personally I don’t go party political with local elections, I go with which councillor I think will do the best job.

 

[hampshireblue]

The bottom line is that a Labour Government that's on the bones of its arse and complains bitterly that it has no money and is cutting services (like school busses for example) that were pretty sparse anyway, is increasing the number of Senedd members by 60%. That in itself is obscene and abhorrent.

We do not need additional members. It would be great if they were proposing PR in the current structure. They're not. They're creating another level of vote which means there will be bigger seats that will be subject to some kind of proportional representation. Meddling or gerrymandering at best either way manipulation to secure their own futures.

If you read my posts carefully I have said my vote is a protest against Labour. At the moment Reform is most likely in my constituency to out Labour. If that changes as a result of the English elections, then it's highly likely my vote will change too.

If it was a new method of voting I may agree but it's not. It's been around since at least 1878.

I do read your posts carefully, which is why I know you started by saying your protest vote was to get rid of Labour in Wales specifically ("they've been in power for 25 years and they've got to go" you wrote). That has now morphed into Labour generally-despite that fact you don't actually get a vote of any kind for at least another 12 months.

"so you're blaming the state of the country on Brexit, the will of the people"

To a large degree. It was divisive and polarising as we can probably all see from the news and SM. It has also made us worse off as a nation both financially and with reduced freedom of movement. Can't you see the link between being "on the bones of its' arse" with a 4% or £100bn ( Bloomberg and LSE figures) per year cost to the economy. That's what the individuals you are planning on supporting is costing us every year. I know it's easy to be blase about £bns so to put it in context it's £273,000,000 per day.

I don't know how you voted in 2016, but you're either happy to support the same mob that have helped get us to where we are now or you've decided to just ignore it and hope they're right this time despite having no track record of actually running anything either locally or nationally. Unfortunately many people used 2016 as a "protest vote" and it backfired on them. There were no winners.

 

[BigJoe#1]

I've just watched the Channel 4 debate on Youtube.

On that viewing I understand why people might vote for Reform, I wholeheartedly understand why most people won't even bother and it completely baffles me how anybody finds the energy to vote for any of the mainstream parties.

Some people just don't have the ability or desire to think outside of their own sphere of thought and belief and cannot understand why and how people have alternative viewpoints... just an observation and I know at times I might (unbelievably) come across this way... I just don't get it.

 

[blueparrot]

Some people just don't have the ability or desire to think outside of their own sphere of thought and belief and cannot understand why and how people have alternative viewpoints... just an observation and I know at times I might (unbelievably) come across this way... I just don't get it.

I understand people have different veiws, I understand people vote tactically to get rid of a particular govenment they don't like. I don't understand how anybody can look at Reform, the people in it, their veiws and think that's how I'll use my vote whether protest vote or not. If reform are the answer the questions are wrong.

 

[meltonblue]

Some people just don't have the ability or desire to think outside of their own sphere of thought and belief and cannot understand why and how people have alternative viewpoints... just an observation and I know at times I might (unbelievably) come across this way... I just don't get it.

I don’t think it’s that, it’s that people haven’t worked out yet how to combat it.

 

[inbetween]

Which debate is that?

Personally I don’t go party political with local elections, I go with which councillor I think will do the best job.

Agreed but we know the reality is different. If local candidates could be impactful then it may be worthwhile but we know that it's so impactful that far less than 50% will even bother to vote.

This is more of a barometer of where the country sits and many will indeed vote on party lines.

 

[BobKowalski]

Some people just don't have the ability or desire to think outside of their own sphere of thought and belief and cannot understand why and how people have alternative viewpoints... just an observation and I know at times I might (unbelievably) come across this way... I just don't get it.

You are right. You don’t have the ability or desire.

 

[meltonblue]

Agreed but we know the reality is different. If local candidates could be impactful then it may be worthwhile but we know that it's so impactful that far less than 50% will even bother to vote.

This is more of a barometer of where the country sits and many will indeed vote on party lines.

Depends how much people are invested in loval
issues, I’ve experienced both sides of the coin with that.

I’ve just watched the reform contributions on that vid and I think it just backs up what I initially said - they’re going to have to get into power before they can be properly combatted as the usual norms are out the window now.

 

[BigJoe#1]

If it was a new method of voting I may agree but it's not. It's been around since at least 1878.

And it's outdated and does not reflect the mood of the nation... what was it 36% of the vote gives 65% power - not for me thanks.

I do read your posts carefully, which is why I know you started by saying your protest vote was to get rid of Labour in Wales specifically ("they've been in power for 25 years and they've got to go" you wrote). That has now morphed into Labour generally-despite that fact you don't actually get a vote of any kind for at least another 12 months.

Labour have over the years become very hypocritical and are Tory Lites IMO. If you vote for Tories you know you're going to get fleeced. Labour just say what they have to say to get votes - Starmer being a classic example...
Reduced Energy Bills? No they've increased.
WFA? Removed without a mention in the Manifesto.
No Tax increases? Employers NI up
Starmer - What is a woman? Silence
Climate Change - Green taxes and prices are giving us the most expensive power in Europe.
Border Force...? where is it? He always told us what he was going to do but not how he was going to do it - I can see why now.
... and so it goes on

I appreciate you might not view these issues and many others through a different Prism to me but all I see

"so you're blaming the state of the country on Brexit, the will of the people"

To a large degree. It was divisive and polarising as we can probably all see from the news and SM. It has also made us worse off as a nation both financially and with reduced freedom of movement. Can't you see the link between being "on the bones of its' arse" with a 4% or £100bn ( Bloomberg and LSE figures) per year cost to the economy. That's what the indivuals you are planning on supporting is costing us every year.

What you don't know is where we would be if we had stayed... I don't think there are many economies flourishing in Europe at the moment. Maybe we are worse off, maybe we are in a better place than we would have been had we stayed I don't and neither do you.

I don't know how you voted in 2016, but you're either happy to support the same mob that have helped get us to where we are now or you've decided to just ignore it and hope they're right this time despite having no track record of actually running anything either locally or nationally. Unfortunately many people used 2016 as a "protest vote" and it backfired on them. There were no winners.

My memories of Labour don't serve well for me. My memories go back to Arthur Scargill running the country and things like the winter of discontent, labour in Government 1974 -79 inflation was at '74 - 16% '75 - 24% '76 - 16% '77 - 15% ''78 - 8% '79 - 13% I also remember Blair, he had an easy act to follow the devastating Thatcher and weak Major. He then went on to advance PFI ( a true tory strategy) and basically sold out the NHS and many other Government Departments, then we move on to Gordon Brown and the mess he left the economy in (remember the "theres no money left" note?) Then we have Wales... whether you see it from where you are I don't know but the Welsh Labour government has done nothing but add an extra layer of bureaucracy and cost for very little if any benefit. Supported by a Labour administration for the first decade.. So yes I want them out.

Just so you can make a note I will say again. My vote will be used to get Labour out in Wales and Westminster as the opportunity arises and that is a very popular view here in Wales. It is not a vote for Reform it is a way, under this antiquated voting system to get Labour out.

 

[BigJoe#1]

You are right. You don’t have the ability or desire.

You make my point very well. You just cannot tolerate or accept anyone thinking different to you.... and that is just fine.

 

[hampshireblue]

And it's outdated and does not reflect the mood of the nation... what was it 36% of the vote gives 65% power - not for me thanks.


Labour have over the years become very hypocritical and are Tory Lites IMO. If you vote for Tories you know you're going to get fleeced. Labour just say what they have to say to get votes - Starmer being a classic example...
Reduced Energy Bills? No they've increased.
WFA? Removed without a mention in the Manifesto.
No Tax increases? Employers NI up
Starmer - What is a woman? Silence
Climate Change - Green taxes and prices are giving us the most expensive power in Europe.
Border Force...? where is it? He always told us what he was going to do but not how he was going to do it - I can see why now.
... and so it goes on

I appreciate you might not view these issues and many others through a different Prism to me but all I see

What you don't know is where we would be if we had stayed... I don't think there are many economies flourishing in Europe at the moment. Maybe we are worse off, maybe we are in a better place than we would have been had we stayed I don't and neither do you.

My memories of Labour don't serve well for me. My memories go back to Arthur Scargill running the country and things like the winter of discontent, labour in Government 1974 -79 inflation was at '74 - 16% '75 - 24% '76 - 16% '77 - 15% ''78 - 8% '79 - 13% I also remember Blair, he had an easy act to follow the devastating Thatcher and weak Major. He then went on to advance PFI ( a true tory strategy) and basically sold out the NHS and many other Government Departments, then we move on to Gordon Brown and the mess he left the economy in (remember the "theres no money left" note?) Then we have Wales... whether you see it from where you are I don't know but the Welsh Labour government has done nothing but add an extra layer of bureaucracy and cost for very little if any benefit. Supported by a Labour administration for the first decade.. So yes I want them out.

Just so you can make a note I will say again. My vote will be used to get Labour out in Wales and Westminster as the opportunity arises and that is a very popular view here in Wales. It is not a vote for Reform it is a way, under this antiquated voting system to get Labour out.

Ok. There's too much bollocks in there to unpick. One example is the Brown years. The economy was flat from the period 2007-2010 because of.......the GFC. But you choose to ignore that so your view is completely without context. But..the 2009 drop in GDP which apparently is a reason not to vote for Labour, is almost exactly the same drop (4%) in GDP that Brexit has caused EVERY YEAR, which you also choose to ignore and actually plan to vote for those responsible. I reckon you could put yourself forward for medical research for inconsistent logic.

Enjoy the rest of the season and your wait to put that tick in the box. Hwyl Fawr.

 

[BobKowalski]

You make my point very well. You just cannot tolerate or accept anyone thinking different to you.... and that is just fine.

Neither can you.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Neither can you.

I think I can... but I would say that wouldn't I.

What I cannot accept is people not accepting that I am entitled to an alternative point of view - but then again that's their problem not mine.