Refugee crisis

Erm, no. Of course we fucking wouldn't.

pre/during WWII men were conscripted into a well trained, well equipped, modern, professional and established army. A far fucking cry from "some weapons and basic training".

Have you never seen a war film ManCitizens?!?! In the entire history of ill-conceived posts on BM (and there've been a lot of them), this is right up there.
I'd agree if Isis had as many men, supplies and the training the Nazi's had, Isis are fighting in the shadows twisting the minds of vulnerable people. It works both ways.

Whilst WWII men were well trained and equipped, so were the Nazis (even more so). In it's simplest form this would be two unorganised forces fighting each other, the obvious problem would be what Isis would be willing to do to innocent people.
 
I'd agree if Isis had as many men, supplies and the training the Nazi's had, Isis are fighting in the shadows twisting the minds of vulnerable people. It works both ways.

Whilst WWII men were well trained and equipped, so were the Nazis (even more so). In it's simplest form this would be two unorganised forces fighting each other, the obvious problem would be what Isis would be willing to do to innocent people.
You need to have a look at their (ISIS) estimated numbers and rethink your post.
To save you a job it's somewhere between 31,500 - 200,000 depending on the source. Either way it's more than a few ISIS members 'in the shadows' I'm not sure if 'some weapons and basic training' given to civilians who are essentially teachers, doctors etc. is gonna cut it.
 
This has been done to death OP, it has been covered on the threads about refugees/ISIS.
Ahh just saw @stony's post - like that is it.

Genuinely my first thought. Wondered why it took so long to be honest
When I see threads like this from the op, i sometimes think he's having us on, taking us all for for mugs.
I mean 'Johnson' in America it's slangword for a penis, or in Mancinian a dick. "On the left" surely has to be ironic, because the OP has proved time and again that he is so far to the right that if Hitler were alive and holding a dinner party he would cross him off the guest list for being too radical.
The only logical conclusion is that Johnsononetheleft is a right dick.
 
When I see threads like this from the op, i sometimes think he's having us on, taking us all for for mugs.
I mean 'Johnson' in America it's slangword for a penis, or in Mancinian a dick. "On the left" surely has to be ironic, because the OP has proved time and again that he is so far to the right that if Hitler were alive and holding a dinner party he would cross him off the guest list for being too radical.
The only logical conclusion is that Johnsononetheleft is a right dick.

I could be completely wrong but I always thought his username was to do with a certain ex-player of ours (who is now up on charges of having sex with an under-age girl) and which side of the pitch the poster would prefer to see him play. Of course, I see where he stands politically and it certainly isn't on the left. If the question about the possibility of ISIS infiltrating the flood of refugees into Europe hadn't been asked by him I think it would've been given more credence. It's an added concern in all this and we have to hope that thorough checks are done on those coming in.
 
I'd agree if Isis had as many men, supplies and the training the Nazi's had, Isis are fighting in the shadows twisting the minds of vulnerable people. It works both ways.

Whilst WWII men were well trained and equipped, so were the Nazis (even more so). In it's simplest form this would be two unorganised forces fighting each other, the obvious problem would be what Isis would be willing to do to innocent people.

I really don't think it's that easy. These people have literally next to nothing to fight with and I don't think it's simply a case of training up people with no experience and making a good go of it. ISIS are a lot more organised than you think and have a shit load of money behind them meaning they have the kind of firepower that allows them to go into certain places and literally roll them over. Even highly experienced Kurdish fighters are being stretched to the limit in trying to see them off.
 
I really don't think it's that easy. These people have literally next to nothing to fight with and I don't think it's simply a case of training up people with no experience and making a good go of it. ISIS are a lot more organised than you think and have a shit load of money behind them meaning they have the kind of firepower that allows them to go into certain places and literally roll them over. Even highly experienced Kurdish fighters are being stretched to the limit in trying to see them off.

That's Stony's point. He's having us on so we think that's what he means.
 
Seeing a lot of pictures of these refugees flooding into Europe. I'm not for one second suggesting that they are ISIS agents but my question is this - how come there are so many men in these pictures on their own? I do not want to believe that ISIS will use this crisis to get their soldiers into Europe but surely these men would be fleeing with their families not without them??? Apparently men make up 75% of the refugees.

If they'd all been women and young children you'd have started a thread about the strain on the health service and education system, while simultaneously complaining about having to pay tax and failing to see the irony.
 
I think it's foolhardy to think that there are no Islamic fundamentalists coming in with such a widespread migration.

There's no widespread organization called ISIS that has commanders to order in large numbers of troops as some present it, ISIS is more like a brand name that certain long standing Islamic fascist groups move in and out of as it meets their objectives. The actual number of permanent ISIS members seems to be extremely small, less than a couple of hundred or so by some counts.

Islamic fascism isn't ISIS, it's wider problem amongst many small but different groups in the Middle East with daft names like the Tigers of Levant and shite like that.

Some might see it as a way of getting out of a bad situation which they've found themselves in and start a new life. Some might see it as easy access to key targets. The idea however that any border force could possibly find and stop all of these people is a bit ludicrous. It's not like there's an Islamic fascist phonebook. They'll absolutely come through with this stream of migrants. But then they'll come through even if this stream of migrants wasn't happening so I don't see too much of a difference.
 
Cheery thought for the day!

I was told by a senior member of the armed forces in the 1970's when I lived in London that if the Chinese invaded Britain with knives and forks they would win as there are so many of them.
 
There's no widespread organization called ISIS that has commanders to order in large numbers of troops as some present it, ISIS is more like a brand name that certain long standing Islamic fascist groups move in and out of as it meets their objectives. The actual number of permanent ISIS members seems to be extremely small, less than a couple of hundred or so by some counts.
Not sure that's correct
According to the Institute for the Study of War, ISIL's 2013 annual report reveals a metrics-driven military command, which is "a strong indication of a unified, coherent leadership structure that commands from the top down".[35] Middle East Forum's Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi said, "They are highly skilled in urban guerrilla warfarewhile the new Iraqi Army simply lacks tactical competence."[36]

Little is known about the military command structure of ISIL. Sources indicate that Abu Muslim al-Turkmani(Deputy Leader in Iraq – Killed in Action) was an Iraqi Army General and Abu Ali al-Anbari (Deputy Leader in Syria) was also an Iraqi Army Major General, both under the Saddam Hussein government. Georgian born fighter Abu Omar al-Shishani is a prominent figure in the ISIL military and it has been speculated that he may have become the military chief for the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant following the death of Abu Abdul-Rahman al-Bilawi al-Anbari in Mosul in June 2014.[37] Reports indicate that the military is organized into brigades such as a female unit tasked with policing religious laws.[38] According to battle reports ISIL often operates in small mobile fighting units.

ISIL’s fighters are reportedly organised into seven branches: infantry, snipers, air defence, special forces, artillery forces, the “army of adversity”, and the Caliphate Army. This force structure is largely replicated in each of its designated provinces, with the most skilled fighters and military strategists in each area serving in the special forces unit, which is not allowed to redeploy to other provinces. Parallel to this structure is the Caliphate Army, which is directed by ISIL’s central command rather than its provincial leadership. Made up overwhelmingly of foreign fighters, it is deployed to assist in battles across ISIL controlled territory.[39]

The group also operates outside areas it largely controls using a cell structure. An ISIL-linked senior militant commander in Sinai told Reuters, “They [ISIL] teach us how to carry out operations. We communicate through the internet, ... they teach us how to create secret cells, consisting of five people. Only one person has contact with other cells. They are teaching us how to attack security forces, the element of surprise. They told us to plant bombs then wait 12 hours so that the man planting the device has enough time to escape from the town he is in.”[40]
 
I think it's foolhardy to think that there are no Islamic fundamentalists coming in with such a widespread migration.

There's no widespread organization called ISIS that has commanders to order in large numbers of troops as some present it, ISIS is more like a brand name that certain long standing Islamic fascist groups move in and out of as it meets their objectives. The actual number of permanent ISIS members seems to be extremely small, less than a couple of hundred or so by some counts.

Islamic fascism isn't ISIS, it's wider problem amongst many small but different groups in the Middle East with daft names like the Tigers of Levant and shite like that.

Some might see it as a way of getting out of a bad situation which they've found themselves in and start a new life. Some might see it as easy access to key targets. The idea however that any border force could possibly find and stop all of these people is a bit ludicrous. It's not like there's an Islamic fascist phonebook. They'll absolutely come through with this stream of migrants. But then they'll come through even if this stream of migrants wasn't happening so I don't see too much of a difference.

Im sorry but if you think there are only less than 200 permanent ISIS members you haven't been keeping up. The UN puts the number at a standing army of 20,000.
 
for those interested, the actual facts and figures of the refugee crisis rather than Facebook/Media bullshit.

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

Male breakdown
49.5% total
9.1% between 0-4 years old
10.7% between 5-11
6.5% between 12-17
21.8% between 18-59
1.3% 60+

Female breakdown
50.5%
8.6% between 0-4 years old
10.1% between 5-11
6.1% between 12-17
23.9% between 18-59
1.7% 60+
 
for those interested, the actual facts and figures of the refugee crisis rather than Facebook/Media bullshit.

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

Male breakdown
49.5% total
9.1% between 0-4 years old
10.7% between 5-11
6.5% between 12-17
21.8% between 18-59
1.3% 60+

Female breakdown
50.5%
8.6% between 0-4 years old
10.1% between 5-11
6.1% between 12-17
23.9% between 18-59
1.7% 60+


This is the number of registered refugees in the surrounding area and has nothing to do with the demographics of the migrants currently crossing Europe.

Nice try though.
 
Im sorry but if you think there are only less than 200 permanent ISIS members you haven't been keeping up. The UN puts the number at a standing army of 20,000.

That figure seems to be derived from every group that has every used the ISIS/IS/ISIL/Daesh name and how many members it holds when all of those affiliations are added.

An excellent example is Ansar Bait-al-Maqdis from Egypt, often said to have merged with IS by the mainstream press, are still committing terror attacks under their own name. What seems to have happened as far as anybody can work out is that they announce a merger with IS but still continue to operate as their own independent terrorist cell, mainly because that proposed "merger" never actually happened because there's very little to merge with.

IS is presented in Britain as an organized military unit with cells all over the world and sleeper agents and the like. It's bollocks, they're a ragtag group of fascists who through the usage of symbology and the Western presses misunderstanding of how the Middle East was balanced made them into a bigger group than they ever were. It took our press up until about last year to stop confusing them with Al-Qaeda, a group that they have been specifically at war with for as long as they have existed as an organization.

We inflated their presence and now every group in the region wants to fly the black and white flag and tell people how "they're ISIS". But there doesn't seem to be any proper command structure, their "leadership" are constantly changing and dying - not just in terms of one guy to the next but they are literally moving across the world. There was a point a little back, maybe 6-12 months, where about four different people were proclaimed as leaders of IS ranging from groups in Sinai to groups in Anatolia and one bloke in Morocco.

If they had a standing army of 20,000 then this would be black and white. We'd invade, take out their standing army and leadership then be back in time for eggs and bacon sarnys. The problem is that nobody knows who IS are, including IS, because they're more of a brand name than an actual organization with a specific chain of command. That was always the strength of the Islamic terrorist factions since the 1960s, they understand that a fractured system of groups all having their own individual goals and co-opting the brand name is a better strategy than putting together an army to be crushed. The exact same thing happened with Al-Qadea after 9/11, it was apparently this big terrorist organization with its octupus legs everywhere. No nobody is talking about them and has barely heard a peep out of them for ages. Because they never existed in the way we are presented with it, people used the AL-Qaeda brand name as part of their own specific struggles and I have no doubt that if we thought about it we could go through the list of known groups in the Middle East and Northern Africa and find that there's a bunch of groups who were "part of Al Qaeda" which are now "part of IS" despite them having competing ideologies.
 
This is the number of registered refugees in the surrounding area and has nothing to do with the demographics of the migrants currently crossing Europe.

Nice try though.

they are the stats for the refugees, simple stats with no media bias or political standpoint.

You can take what you want from them, I do find the fact the age bracket for 12-18 is significantly lower than the other brackets quite telling, are these the ones that have stayed? been killed? trying to get to other areas of Europe?, wont have kids of there own to look after and probable the oldest children of a family so are being sent ahead to apply for asylum?.

There are no reliable stats out there to say what the break down is for the ones travelling into Europe, Just estimates from right wing media and what can only be described as Nazi White power groups ( IE Facebook post from the likes of Smash Cultural Marxism/britain first, who appear to be the scum of the earth. )
 
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That figure seems to be derived from every group that has every used the ISIS/IS/ISIL/Daesh name and how many members it holds when all of those affiliations are added.

An excellent example is Ansar Bait-al-Maqdis from Egypt, often said to have merged with IS by the mainstream press, are still committing terror attacks under their own name. What seems to have happened as far as anybody can work out is that they announce a merger with IS but still continue to operate as their own independent terrorist cell, mainly because that proposed "merger" never actually happened because there's very little to merge with.

IS is presented in Britain as an organized military unit with cells all over the world and sleeper agents and the like. It's bollocks, they're a ragtag group of fascists who through the usage of symbology and the Western presses misunderstanding of how the Middle East was balanced made them into a bigger group than they ever were. It took our press up until about last year to stop confusing them with Al-Qaeda, a group that they have been specifically at war with for as long as they have existed as an organization.

We inflated their presence and now every group in the region wants to fly the black and white flag and tell people how "they're ISIS". But there doesn't seem to be any proper command structure, their "leadership" are constantly changing and dying - not just in terms of one guy to the next but they are literally moving across the world. There was a point a little back, maybe 6-12 months, where about four different people were proclaimed as leaders of IS ranging from groups in Sinai to groups in Anatolia and one bloke in Morocco.

If they had a standing army of 20,000 then this would be black and white. We'd invade, take out their standing army and leadership then be back in time for eggs and bacon sarnys. The problem is that nobody knows who IS are, including IS, because they're more of a brand name than an actual organization with a specific chain of command. That was always the strength of the Islamic terrorist factions since the 1960s, they understand that a fractured system of groups all having their own individual goals and co-opting the brand name is a better strategy than putting together an army to be crushed. The exact same thing happened with Al-Qadea after 9/11, it was apparently this big terrorist organization with its octupus legs everywhere. No nobody is talking about them and has barely heard a peep out of them for ages. Because they never existed in the way we are presented with it, people used the AL-Qaeda brand name as part of their own specific struggles and I have no doubt that if we thought about it we could go through the list of known groups in the Middle East and Northern Africa and find that there's a bunch of groups who were "part of Al Qaeda" which are now "part of IS" despite them having competing ideologies.


In ISIL-controlled territory, 8 million civilians living in ‘state of fear’ – UN expert
07-31-2015ISIL_Rights.jpg

31 July 2015 – The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) has engaged in widespread and systematic human rights violations of the most serious kinds in Syria and Iraq, brutally forcing some 8 million people to “assimilate, flee or face death,” according to a United Nations expert.

“These violations may amount to genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes and widespread attacks on the civilian population,” according to Ben Emmerson, the UN Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms while countering terrorism.

An estimated 8 million people live under ISIL territory in Iraq and the Syrian Arab Republic.

“The brutal nature and overall scale of abuses appears to be intended to reinforce the group’s absolute monopoly on political and social life and to enforce compliance and conformity among communities under its control. The result is that civilians who remain in ISIL-controlled areas live in a state of constant and almost unimaginable fear,” said Emmerson in his report, which was presented to the Human Rights Council last month.

ISIL has targeted religious and ethnic groups in Iraq and Syria and committed acts of violence against civilians because of their affiliation with them. These communities have been forced to assimilate, flee or face death, he explained. “In Iraq, violence against the Yezidis have been reported with men being separated from women and children, then taken to ditches and brutally executed,” he added.

Extremely vulnerable to violence and discrimination, women face sexual and gender-based violence, including sexual slavery, killings, enslavement, and rape. They are confined to their homes and forced to adhere to a strict dress code, pointed out the expert. And children as young as six have been raped, tortured and kidnapped.

Children as young as 8 years old have also been trained and used in military roles. “They are reportedly made to watch videos of beheadings, and mass executions to desensitize them to forms of violence employed by ISIL.”

The growing military capacity of ISIL also means the spread of fear and terror on civilians, Mr. Emmerson continued, emphasizing that more than 20,000 foreign fighters have now joined the ranks of non-State armed groups from about 80 countries around the world.

Addressing the military response by the international coalition of States, led by the United States, he said that civilians living in ISIL-controlled territory are mainly residing in urban areas where many of the coalition air strikes have been performed. It has also been reported that ISIL strategically places its fighters among civilians, in civilian areas or uses hospitals and schools as military bases, to provoke civilian casualties in the event of attacks by the coalition.

The UN Rapporteur then called attention to the lack of transparency with coalition operations in Iraq and Syria.

“Each nation participating in the air war operates under unique rules of engagement, and transparency levels differ significantly,” the expert noted. While air strikes are carried out by different sources, it is difficult to know which States were responsible for an event and when they will occur.

The Special Rapporteur recalled the coalition states’ obligations under international law to ensure that their military operations are “transparent and accountable,” and that any civilian death resulting from these operations is “promptly, independently and impartiality” investigated.

Highlighting the failure by the Security Council to take appropriate and immediate action to protect civilians in affected areas, Mr. Emmerson also stressed the need for the international coalition of States engaged in military acts against ISIL to ensure that measures are put into place to protect civilians and prevent further casualties.
 

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