Religion

[Octavian]

On a personal level I think you do the man an injustice.

Christopher Hitchens - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Does God exist?

Willaim Craig v Hitchens. full debate. Its 2.5 hours long but an excellent introduction into that age old question.

He makes some funny quips but his tactics for winning the argument is purposefully take sentences out of context and use hyperbole to dismantle the straw man.

I’ll give you an example, he often criticised Matthew 6:34 “Take therefore no thought for the morrow” by completely getting wrong what the passage was saying. The purpose of the passage was about ridding yourself of evil now. Hitchens suggested it was bad advice about not planning what you’re going to eat the following day.

I think he knew that tho as he only used to quote that single line out of the whole of Matthew 6:25-34.

 

[tonea2003]

The book has been a major part of different civilisations across the world, sometimes shaping them. It’s the most important book in the world.

From a historical perspective it’s not reliable for historical fact but if you were a God wanting to bring people back to you, then the message is surely the most important. All 4 gospels tell you to put your faith in Jesus and that’s clear so the gospels have done their job.

There’s a reason there’s been more Christian’s than any other people on earth for over a 1000 years and it’s because the book does it’s job.

Fear is the key
And there’s lot of it in there

 

[Octavian]

No I think they are writing for their intended audience
Lots of Roman and pagan gods to dispel

Matthew is clearly writing with the intention of converting Jews to Christianity. There’s not much argument there, he’s doing his best to convince them Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. Luke caveats his gospel by saying he’s writing it from many accounts from other people, he doesn’t take any “glory” for himself to be fair.

 

[Octavian]

Fear is the key
And there’s lot of it in there

Well yeah, most scholars see Jesus has a messianic preacher who thought the world was coming to an end and people needed to repent or else but a general thing sceptics get wrong is that they say it engages in fear for political reasons, when I don’t think it does.

 

[arfurclue]

¨"1 John 4:18–19
“There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. We love because he first loved us.””

from https://www.womansday.com/life/inspirational-stories/g28436392/bible-verses-about-fear/?slide=16

Kind of suggests a message of love not fear and not a way of punishment either?

 

[tonea2003]

Well yeah, most scholars see Jesus has a messianic preacher who thought the world was coming to an end and people needed to repent or else but a general thing sceptics get wrong is that they say it engages in fear for political reasons, when I don’t think it does.

No it’s simpler that I really think it is
The prospect of eternal life comes at a price
It may have had innocent beginnings but over time the smell of filthy lucre has shown its dirty hand

 

[Octavian]

No it’s simpler that I really think it is
The prospect of eternal life comes at a price
It may have had innocent beginnings but over time the smell of filthy lucre has shown its dirty hand

I agree with the last part, it was a small group and was about saving your soul to begin with. The Catholic Church, as an example, with all its political power, money, corruption and crime is a world away from what the first Christians lived like and did.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I agree with the last part, it was a small group and was about saving your soul to begin with. The Catholic Church, as an example, with all its political power, money, corruption and crime is a world away from what the first Christians lived like and did.

The Catholic Church 'instructed' citizens to live their lives according their interpretation of a bible that most of those citizens couldn't read under fear of being 'smited' by their God if the didn't conform.

 

[Marklr]

The book has been a major part of different civilisations across the world, sometimes shaping them. It’s the most important book in the world.

From a historical perspective it’s not reliable for historical fact but if you were a God wanting to bring people back to you, then the message is surely the most important. All 4 gospels tell you to put your faith in Jesus and that’s clear so the gospels have done their job.

There’s a reason there’s been more Christian’s than any other people on earth for over a 1000 years and it’s because the book does it’s job.

The book has failed. The reason for its growth throughout the world is simply down to the fear it promotes. That and the fact that the Romans made it punishable by death to reject it. People don't choose to believe in it.

 

[Octavian]

The book has failed. The reason for its growth throughout the world is simply down to the fear it promotes. That and the fact that the Romans made it punishable by death to reject it. People don't choose to believe in it.

2.6 billion people follow it 2000 years later, how’s that a failure?