RIP Pele (p9)

Nelinho said:
I remember the early days of the Pele or Maradona "debate". Anybody who has spoken with people of older generations (not just fans, but people who have played the game, coaches etc) will confirm that in the beginning they actually didn't take it seriously (the "debate" I mean). When they did realise that the media were indeed making this an issue, they just couldn't believe it. Not going to mention names, but I do remember one of them (well known, had a career till early 70s) saying to me: "If we emphasize on technical ability (referring to Maradona), why not Garrincha? Why not Eusebio? Why not so many others?"

In their minds, such a "debate" never existed, they considered it totally ridiculous (and a product of sheer ignorance). And by the way, after Pele, they would mention names such as Di Stefano, Puskas etc. We are talking about different standards. We are also talking about a completely different understanding of the game...

There is no point talking about his numbers and achievements, they are literally out of this world. Messi wins the WC just before retiring (having already failed repeatedly numerous times), Pele achieved this in 1958 (Sweden), putting Brazil and their jogo bonito on the map. He was 16-17 years old. Winner in 1962 (even though he didn't play much due to injury, but Garrincha did shine in Chile), winner also in 1970 with a team that has become a myth (and rightly so). The influence this man and the football culture of his country had in the evolution of the game, cannot easily be described with words. Football is the most popular sport globally, a reality significantly associated with Pele's and Brazil's impact...

All the names (as well as others) mentioned in your post deserve respect. But Pele is clearly ahead of them. I would strongly recomment to fans to watch matches with him playing. Not highlights. Full matches. You can find all Brazil's matches from the 1970 WC in Mexico, for example (and more). I promise you, it will be an experience. Most probably you will then reach the same conclusion with people like Cruyff, Beckenbauer etc: Pele was by far the most complete player ever (the words they used to express themselves when talking about him), therefore the best ever. The guy was God's creation, he had literally everything -and excelled in every single attribute. Above all, a player with the strategic mind of a general. We are talking about a unique understanding of the game. Throughout the 90', he would position himself and act according to what his team needed every single fucking moment. All elements of his game and decision making, movement, actions, tempo etc, somehow make sense. They seem correct. They also seem very natural and effortless...

Sad fucking day. A giant is no longer with us. But his legacy will live forever. RIP.
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Great post but ‘clearly ahead’ of Messi is still mind boggling to me
 
BBC (America) world news just gave their entire half hour to Pele, including an interview with Dennis Tueart talking about how he took over from him at NY Cosmos (and on his 70th birthday getting a personal video message from Pele himself.) And then some journo who got to know Pele in 1966 while the Brazil team was staying at a "less than 5 star hotel in Lytham" as he put it.
It brought back a memory of seeing a young Brazil fan standing by the side of the East Lancs Road trying to hitch a ride to L'pool for one of their W.C. games at Goodison that year. Almost the only words we could find together were "Pele" and "Garrincha" but the lad was dead excited at the thought of seeing his countrymen play. So when a car stopped to give him a lift he ran to where it had stopped and jumped in, leaving his bag by the side of the road as they sped off. Somewhere around St. Helens he might have noticed he'd gone without it but when it was still there that night we turned it in to the Lancs constabulary who found it was full of bright yellow t-shirts and Brazilian footie magazines. Often wondered what became of the lad, hope he at least got in to see Pele in action.
 
cleavers said:
It's sad, yes, but we will all pass sooner or later.

He was a brilliant footballer obviously, and one of my first memories of WC football.

It's very hard to compare to our modern day football, given the difference in equipment, but people talk about Messi/Mbappe/Neynar and try to compare, but how can anyone ?
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They are all compared along with Maradona to one player. That player is Pele. They are all like chess pieces trying to out manoeuvre each other, only to be checkmated by the King, Pele.
 
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jrb said:
They are all compared along with Maradona to one player. That player is Pele. They are all like a chess pieces trying to out manoeuvre each other, only to be checkmated by the King, Pele.
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I just don't see how you can compare them, the only comparison is they were footballers, but 1960/70's compared to 2010/20's, it's a totally different game, and I'm lucky enough to have watched the change.
 
cleavers said:
I just don't see how you can compare them, the only comparison is they were footballers, but 1960/70's compared to 2010/20's, it's a totally different game, and I'm lucky enough to have watched the change.
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Nobody can.

But given all the advances in football on the pitch to date, if Pele was playing now, he‘d probably be the best player in the World. He was doing everything then on the pitch that the very best players in the world are doing now on the pitch. Forget Neymar, Ronaldo and Mbappe. Only Maradona and Messi come close to Pele. Yes, you need a team around you, but every team has a stand out and star player. Pele, a World Cup winner 3 times!
 
cleavers said:
I just don't see how you can compare them, the only comparison is they were footballers, but 1960/70's compared to 2010/20's, it's a totally different game, and I'm lucky enough to have watched the change.
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Its the old pound for pound argument but I go back to my original post in this thread now is not the time for comparison except I can only say Ali transcended his sport in a smilar vein
 
AliBobbyJ said:
BBC (America) world news just gave their entire half hour to Pele, including an interview with Dennis Tueart talking about how he took over from him at NY Cosmos (and on his 70th birthday getting a personal video message from Pele himself.) And then some journo who got to know Pele in 1966 while the Brazil team was staying at a "less than 5 star hotel in Lytham" as he put it.
It brought back a memory of seeing a young Brazil fan standing by the side of the East Lancs Road trying to hitch a ride to L'pool for one of their W.C. games at Goodison that year. Almost the only words we could find together were "Pele" and "Garrincha" but the lad was dead excited at the thought of seeing his countrymen play. So when a car stopped to give him a lift he ran to where it had stopped and jumped in, leaving his bag by the side of the road as they sped off. Somewhere around St. Helens he might have noticed he'd gone without it but when it was still there that night we turned it in to the Lancs constabulary who found it was full of bright yellow t-shirts and Brazilian footie magazines. Often wondered what became of the lad, hope he at least got in to see Pele in action.
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That lad became Steve Jobs RIP
 
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