Rock Evolution – The History of Rock & Roll - 1984 - (page 198)

[BimboBob]

10 picks by the nominee and 4 or 5 by everyone else with explanations as to why they should be included. ‘plus other tracks’ will have us back to where we are just now.

No...we pick 4 for inclusion and mention a few others for context.

 

[Saddleworth2]

“Blue Monday” is OK. It’s got rhythm and a bit of melody. Bernard Sumner is one of the more palatable indie mumbles. He’s almost normal!

See, I think that’s a bit much. Some songs are just great, or maybe one of your favourites, that they shouldn’t all need a justification. It is nice if a bit of context is provided though.

Fair enough. Justification is maybe the wrong word. Context? History? Personal experience? Anything that gets us away from just writing a bloody list. I’ve said enough. Let’s see how 81 develops.

 

[OB1]

10 picks by the nominee and 4 or 5 by everyone else with explanations as to why they should be included. ‘plus other tracks’ will have us back to where we are just now.

And I am not sticking to 10 picks for 1981; although I tried and my intial list is restrained but I have mentioned tracks that are not on it that I would anticpate other people selecting, but if they don't.

 

[Saddleworth2]

And I am not sticking to 10 picks for 1981; although I tried and my intial list is restrained but I have mentioned tracks that are not on it that I would anticpate other people selecting, but if they don't.

Then you don’t put them in.

 

[threespires]

2 years time New Order finally shook off the shackles of JD and became that band. I suspect we're talking about the same song but Everything's Gone Green was a step forward although occasionally they would go back to a Joy Division sounding song like Ultraviolence

At the end of the day this is a good thread that hopefully won't get sidetracked with arguments about how many songs go on.
If someone is prepared to do the prep and put the time in they should get 10 everyone else 4.
My suspicion is as the years get into next century the playlist will shorten anyway

I imagine we are talking about the same song.

I think your suspicion will be proven correct. After Return of the Mac, I got nothin :-)

 

[BimboBob]

And I am not sticking to 10 picks for 1981; although I tried and my intial list is restrained but I have mentioned tracks that are not on it that I would anticpate other people selecting, but if they don't.

If you mention other tracks then I wouldn't choose them. Seems a bit pointless.

Why not stick to the plan mate? I love all of your inputs in this thread, you are fantastically knowledgeable about music, but less is indeed sometimes more.

You can always add everything after to the coda.

 

[OB1]

If you mention other tracks then I wouldn't choose them. Seems a bit pointless.

Why not stick to the plan mate? I love all of your inputs in this thread, you are fantastically knowledgeable about music, but less is indeed sometimes more.

You can always add everything after to the coda.

I’d give an example but but that would spoil the point of doing a piece on the year.

I will put any additions I make into a coda.

I’m very bored now of debating the rules; in fact, I’ll be honest, all these rules are a pain when we are discussing a subject where improvisation is an often a good thing. It’s worse than my daughter’s effing university essay instructions. Next there will be a word count limit.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

It is absolutely right to discuss JD and their influence. I don’t like the miserablist vocals and scratchy sound, but I’m more than happy to have them discussed.

They may have been influential but it doesn’t mean they were any good :)

I’m with Rob here. I won’t go on too much as New Order haven’t arrived here yet but I love NO yet never “got” JD.

I’ve said this before, too gloomy for me - and of course folks on here jumped on me saying “but you are a Smiths fan!”
Again, not wanting to get ahead of the year in question, I found The Smiths uplifting and humouress not depressing.

 

[BimboBob]

I’d give an example but but that would spoil the point of doing a piece on the year.

I will put any additions I make into a coda.

I’m very bored now of debating the rules; in fact, I’ll be honest, all these rules are a pain when we are discussing a subject where improvisation is an often a good thing. It’s worse than my daughter’s effing university essay instructions. Next there will be a word count limit.

200 OK with you?

 

[OB1]

200 OK with you?

Perfect.

 

[Protein Junkie]

It's like the classic folk test of when you go to the Lake District and say stood on Friars Crag you ask someone what do you see? One person will give you a detailed description of Derwentwater and the other will say something like "mother nature in all it's glory". They are both 'right' and both people are getting a lot from being there but they are viewing things through a different lens.

We will have to wait until 1986 to discuss Cumbria’s finest of rock bands. I cannot wait.

 

[Saddleworth2]

We will have to wait until 1986 to discuss Cumbria’s finest of rock bands. I cannot wait.

Think you might have bitten off a bit much there mate.

 

[Protein Junkie]

Think you might have bitten off a bit much there mate.

Ha ha love it :-)

 

[Black&White&BlueMoon Town]

We will have to wait until 1986 to discuss Cumbria’s finest of rock bands. I cannot wait.

If only you knew if the one intro'ing that year would leave some of that low hanging fruit for you.

As it relates to fruit, it bites, because indeed you do.

 

[BimboBob]

We will have to wait until 1986 to discuss Cumbria’s finest of rock bands. I cannot wait.

911?

 

[hilts]

I’m with Rob here. I won’t go on too much as New Order haven’t arrived here yet but I love NO yet never “got” JD.

I’ve said this before, too gloomy for me - and of course folks on here jumped on me saying “but you are a Smiths fan!”
Again, not wanting to get ahead of the year in question, I found The Smiths uplifting and humouress not depressing.

You are right the smiths aren't nearly as gloomy as Joy Division. They're also musically a huge step.up from what was an angsty depressing garage band . Which isn't quite as bad as it sounds but still. Sometimes being a bit wank can lead to people being hoodwinked into falling for the unique genius tag.

See The fall for example.

Anyhow the 80s for me was the best decade for music and the number of different styles on offer should make it very interesting.

 

[threespires]

I’m with Rob here. I won’t go on too much as New Order haven’t arrived here yet but I love NO yet never “got” JD.

I’ve said this before, too gloomy for me - and of course folks on here jumped on me saying “but you are a Smiths fan!”
Again, not wanting to get ahead of the year in question, I found The Smiths uplifting and humouress not depressing.

Whilst I disagree with you about JD, the points about The Smiths are well made. It's not even like the humour is that hidden or subtle. As for the bizarre bracketing of all Manchester bands together irrespective of whether they sound even remotely like each other, I think it's just a function of how well Manchester carved out a city identity in relation to music. Some people focus on the Manchester part rather than the genre.

We get to NO next year with an album that lots of fans of both JD and No don't actually like but I think is really interesting but that's for another day.

 

[threespires]

The Joy Division too gloomy is interesting, other art forms explore the whole range of human experience and emotions and no one really bats an eyelid. I wonder if people come to these forms with a fundamentally different expectation of what they want out of it and what they put into it versus how people approach music?

That said. It's somewhat moot for me as one of the reasons I like JD is because nothing was off limits up to and including existential angst but you can still dance to a lot of. Bands that can take you both inside and outside yourself are special imo.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

A question or maybe it’s a statement. Would Joy Division have their enduring appeal had Ian Curtis not taken his life? Did his death elevate the band above what they could have achieved had they carried on and produced a couple of duff albums and split naturally?

 

[OB1]

The Joy Division too gloomy is interesting, other art forms explore the whole range of human experience and emotions and no one really bats an eyelid. I wonder if people come to these forms with a fundamentally different expectation of what they want out of it and what they put into it versus how people approach music?

That said. It's somewhat moot for me as one of the reasons I like JD is because nothing was off limits up to and including existential angst but you can still dance to a lot of. Bands that can take you both inside and outside yourself are special imo.

I have a JD comp but even with this debate, I am not moved to dig it out as I have other things to focus on as much as anything, but the only song that I can think of is “Love Will Tear Us Apart”, which is a very good song but hardly a joyous one.

I’ll freely admit that I am not looking for bands to take me inside myself or do anything other than entertain me and make me feel good. That is not to say I don’t get something from songs that do other things e.g. I love “The River” and that touches something else in me, as do a host of Bruce’s songs.