Rock Evolution – The History of Rock & Roll - 1985 - (page 203)

Saddleworth2 said:
Our favourite song is of course Blue Moon, sung by many including Frank Sinatra and Billy Eckstine and Mel Tormé.

Has to make the playlist.
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I just thought that the Doo-wop version from the 60s is the best so I didn't bother nominating any of the other versions!
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Our favourite song is of course Blue Moon, sung by many including Frank Sinatra and Billy Eckstine and Mel Tormé.

Has to make the playlist.
Click to expand...

Thank you! There are so many great versions. Feel free to suggest an alternative to my thought below.

RobMCFC said:
I just thought that the Doo-wop version from the 60s is the best so I didn't bother nominating any of the other versions!
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Can you imagine SS1 trying to do the Marcels version version!!

The issue is we sing it at a slower tempo than The Marcels but quicker than the likes of Mel Torme.

The band at my wedding were 'under instruction' to play it in the style of Billie Holiday's which caused a bit of a hoohaa as the band leader made it very clear the phrasing was a nightmare for her and wanted extra moolah to practice it, as she was either doing it properly or not all!

Bit left field but how about Al Bowly's version? It's said that had he not died in a Luftwaffe raid on London he'd have given Crosby a run for his money.
 
thank you @threespires , another enjoyable write up.

For me, 'pop' has always confused me as to whether it is a genre, the origins of which you nicely summarise, or a state of mind/audience/movement. I think Pop continues to confuse people to this day, the word reviles some as they instantly think of bubblegum offerings from Britney Spears or some such, but then is countered by the fact that many consider the Beach Boys to be classic Pop. (but arent they surf-rock?!)

I imagine music as a series of interconnected nodes, with weak & strong linkages between ever splintering genres, but the cross-genre-cum-philosophy of Pop will always act as a strange unknown force acting of its own free will, a dark matter of the music industry.
 
shemnel said:
thank you @threespires , another enjoyable write up.

For me, 'pop' has always confused me as to whether it is a genre, the origins of which you nicely summarise, or a state of mind/audience/movement. I think Pop continues to confuse people to this day, the word reviles some as they instantly think of bubblegum offerings from Britney Spears or some such, but then is countered by the fact that many consider the Beach Boys to be classic Pop. (but arent they surf-rock?!)

I imagine music as a series of interconnected nodes, with weak & strong linkages between ever splintering genres, but the cross-genre-cum-philosophy of Pop will always act as a strange unknown force acting of its own free will, a dark matter of the music industry.
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In doing the intro I must have looked at a dozen different 'definitions' of pop and tbh was none the wiser at the end of it! So I stuck with a very simplified genre world view but your dark matter analogy is probably as good a description as I've seen.
 
threespires said:
In doing the intro I must have looked at a dozen different 'definitions' of pop and tbh was none the wiser at the end of it! So I stuck with a very simplified genre world view but your dark matter analogy is probably as good a description as I've seen.
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One definition I saw that I didn't like is that pop music is designed to sell records as opposed to 'proper' music which is art. I also saw a definition that described pop as jazz without the 7th chords or simply as music that isn't jazz or classical.
 
mrbelfry said:
One definition I saw that I didn't like is that pop music is designed to sell records as opposed to 'proper' music which is art. I also saw a definition that described pop as jazz without the 7th chords or simply as music that isn't jazz or classical.
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I agree about the first definition, I think some artists are quite cynical but that shouldn't condemn the entire category and commerciality and artistic expression are hardly mutually exclusive.

The "anything that's not jazz or classical" was one of the descriptions that popped up a couple of times, I can see where it comes from but it's a bit too reductive I think.
 
Absolutely brilliant write up again, some fantastic thoughts and things to think about. This is a belting thread already.

I'm certainly no expert on this era but I've always felt that a lot of the great songs from the musicals from this era would be classed as pop. To some extent I agree that the music that's not Sinatra, not rock n roll and maybe not country is maybe the start of the much maligned genre of "easy listening". The superb Burt Bacharach had Magic Moments recorded by Perry Como and I think Bacharach is regarded as a great from that genre and era.

And of course, it's hard to imagine we would be discussing this without breakthroughs in technology from TV to radio and the studio.

I have a decent collection of transistor radios with some from the early 60s and there's something almost magical hearing a song from the early 60s on a Roberts radio. You are hearing the song how it sounded back then. I can't imagine how that would've sounded to someone in that era!
 
Saddleworth2 said:
In listening to the four playlists so far. American music dominates. I suppose I should have realised that but I did find it interesting. When did that pivot I wonder. My guess is around 1964.
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In all of the articles that I have read around the subject, reading up for the various write-ups I'm doing, it does seem that America led the way and much of what we had in the UK a pale imitation.

Obviously we have centuries of traditions of folk music in the UK and Europe in general, but by and large what we listen to today has American roots.
 
We're not there yet but the huge influence of American music in this period shows what a big deal the British Invasion is a few years later.

The contrast between the country, jazz and the "easy listening" genres to rock n roll is quite something at this point too. The raw, visceral, sexual energy of Little Richard, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis etc sounds almost "immoral" compared to the Alma Cogan etc. I can well imagine that many parents would've found this music very concerning at the time!
 
GoatersLeftShin said:
We're not there yet but the huge influence of American music in this period shows what a big deal the British Invasion is a few years later.

The contrast between the country, jazz and the "easy listening" genres to rock n roll is quite something at this point too. The raw, visceral, sexual energy of Little Richard, Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis etc sounds almost "immoral" compared to the Alma Cogan etc. I can well imagine that many parents would've found this music very concerning at the time!
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I considered doing the pop write up with sex as it's central theme but decided it was too narrow a perspective. I think for the likes of Alma Cogan the changing tides must have been a real blow. I think she was friends with The Beatles especially McCartney (?) but was yesterday's news as far as the industry was concerned. I included her because she seemed emblematic of the type of pop star that was 'left behind'.

Saddleworth2 said:
In listening to the four playlists so far. American music dominates. I suppose I should have realised that but I did find it interesting. When did that pivot I wonder. My guess is around 1964.
Click to expand...

RobMCFC said:
In all of the articles that I have read around the subject, reading up for the various write-ups I'm doing, it does seem that America led the way and much of what we had in the UK a pale imitation.

Obviously we have centuries of traditions of folk music in the UK and Europe in general, but by and large what we listen to today has American roots.
Click to expand...

Indeed. In looking at it in any depth it really does stand out. I think pale imitation is a little bit harsh but when you look at the wider nature of the US compared to the UK it makes total sense that the music and drivers we've looked at would emanate from there, not least of which being the African American population from which so much of what we've heard comes from.

Given we were playing catch up, that British and Irish musicians became the cultural force that they did is all the more impressive in some ways.
 
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threespires said:
I considered doing the pop write up with sex as it's central theme but decided it was too narrow a perspective. I think for the likes of Alma Cogan the changing tides must have been a real blow. I think she was friends with The Beatles especially McCartney (?) but was yesterday's news as far as the industry was concerned. I included her because she seemed emblematic of the type of pop star that was 'left behind'.





Indeed. In looking at it in any depth it really does stand out. I think pale imitation is a little bit harsh but when you look at the wider nature of the US compared to the UK it makes total sense that the music and drivers we've looked at would emanate from there, not least of which being the African American population from which so much of what we've heard comes from.
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It is a pale imitation across every genre. How much did things change in the 60's and who dominated through the decades we will get a feel for as this thread matures. Its an interesting topic. Luckily we have a view from the west. I wish Foggy was contributing though as well.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
It is a pale imitation across every genre. How much did things change in the 60's and who dominated through the decades we will get a feel for as this thread matures. Its an interesting topic. Luckily we have a view from the west. I wish Foggy was contributing though as well.
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I'm not having Humphrey Lyttleton as a pale imitation of anyone :-)
 
shemnel said:
thank you @threespires , another enjoyable write up.

For me, 'pop' has always confused me as to whether it is a genre, the origins of which you nicely summarise, or a state of mind/audience/movement. I think Pop continues to confuse people to this day, the word reviles some as they instantly think of bubblegum offerings from Britney Spears or some such, but then is countered by the fact that many consider the Beach Boys to be classic Pop. (but arent they surf-rock?!)

I imagine music as a series of interconnected nodes, with weak & strong linkages between ever splintering genres, but the cross-genre-cum-philosophy of Pop will always act as a strange unknown force acting of its own free will, a dark matter of the music industry.
Click to expand...

I've always considered Pop as more 'popular' - so basically singles that hit the top 10-20 in charts are Pop whether it's by a heavy metal band or Taylor Swift.
 
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