Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Vester]

Fair enough. Apologies for the pedantry.
I understood what you said and don't agree with it at all. I do not believe that the Russians believe in the NATO expansion argument but are simply using it as a pretext for their aggression which, as I've said earlier, is more to do with Putin's megalomania and narcissism than anything else.

You might be right, and I might be wrong! None of us know for sure:)
No matter the reason behind what they are doing, we can agree on that what they are doing is wrong!

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

Nato are of course very concerned about Russia invasion of Ukraine, thats pretty obvious, not sure what your point was.

You say Nato is no threat to Russia, I agree. Thats why I said I think Putin is deranged/paranoid to think so. Russia strongly disagree, as their invasion to Ukraine shows. They think Nato is a huge threat to Russia. They couldnt have made that more clear, they want the US lead war machine (that how they view Nato, not me) to keep its distance. We might disagree and say its not a threat, Nato is just a defense alliance. That doesnt change the fact that Russia thinks it is, and their actions are a result of that.

Putin basically wants to recreate the Russian empire of pre-1917.

Plus he wants to also maintain russian influence over his neighbours.

He's biggest problem is the likes of Ukraine and Georgia turning their back on him, and looking more towards western democracy and social and financial union.

He only sees NATO as a threat in the context that they stop him throwing his military threats around, and stop his bullying

 

[roubaixtuesday]

They don't.

NATO is a non-aggressive, defensive organisation that only acts once one of its member is attacked by a non-member. In short, don't attack NATO, NATO won't attack you. Since NATO will never attack Russia first, tell me, where is the legitimate concern come from aside from Putin's own paranoia?

Kosovo, Afghanistan for Nato missions. See also Iraq, Libya for some Nato countries acting without threat to themselves.

Like you, I don't believe NATO poses any threat to Russia, but I can well see why Russia could see it differently.

But as I also wrote, I think the fascist ideology of Putin is, by far, the bigger driver here.

 

[grunge]

Moldova just applied for EU membership and is applying for fast track NATO membership.

 

[Metal Biker]

Kosovo, Afghanistan for Nato missions. See also Iraq, Libya for some Nato countries acting without threat to themselves.

Like you, I don't believe NATO poses any threat to Russia, but I can well see why Russia could see it differently.

But as I also wrote, I think the fascist ideology of Putin is, by far, the bigger driver here.

Yeah because they're led by a paranoid, imperialistic sociopath.

 

[TonyM]

Putin calls Macron...

‘It was Putin who called Macron today, according to the Elysée. The call lasted an hour and a half. Macron told Putin: "you are lying to yourself". "There was nothing that Putin said that reassured us", a source in the presidency said. France is preparing for the worst’ @TheEconomist

"...preparing for the worst" - I wonder is that the worst for Ukraine, the worst for France or the worst for the rest of the world?

Dark days.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Ah yes, the old "appeasement" factor.

We have no right to tell anyone when they can or cannot join NATO. And we give it 10 eyars, then what? We do it then instead of now? Keep kicking that can down the road to appease a fascist dictator? Why?

Again, is it not obvious? Because we absolutely DO have a massive problem today, and in 10 years we may or may not have had a massive problem. Anyone who takes a load of shit in preference to only a chance of a load of shit, is not thinking it through.

And what do you mean we have no right to tell anyone when they can or cannot join NATO? What nonsense. NATO could decide not to allow Ukraine to join, just like the EU doesn't allow Turkey to join. And anyway, perhaps if a western delegation had said to Zelensky, "Look, we think there's a very strong possibility that you will be invaded UNLESS you make a commitment not to join NATO for 10 years", whose to say he would not have agreed.

This is not the old "appeasement factor", which you obviously put at the top as if it's something to be ashamed of. It's about understanding the others position, talking, debating and finding a compromise that - whilst not ideal for either side - is something that both sides can live with. And which is massively better than the alternative of all out war.

 

[Metal Biker]

Moldova just applied for EU membership and is applying for fast track NATO membership.

 

[cptaidan88]

If Russian people residing in the UK are here with passport visas stating 'unlimited leave to remain' then they can be booted out if found to be guilty of criminal activity.

Then the issue is they probably haven't been found guilty of criminal activity then. And also the money they gave to the tories.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Yeah because they're led by a paranoid, imperialistic sociopath.

As I said, I view Putin as a fascist.

But if, say Mexico joined a defensive alliance with Russia, I'm sure the USA would see that as a threat. Likewise, it's understandable why NATO expansion could be seen by Russia as a threat.

That can be true without being a justification for this war of aggression.