Sad to think that Shay and RM...

[Rahart]

Given will work and work hard but I think the tipping point for all of this was after Hart's game costing mistakes Given was sure and he said that he thought he'd play and Mancini played Hart, leaving Given knowing that no matter how good he is or how poor Hart is, no matter what he does, he wont get a game.

According to Given he wasn't allowed to leave in the window, two people saying different things here and I don't know, but Given's not one to cause a strop either. He'll work hard but it's clearly very demoralising to realise that no matter what he does it wont matter and he said to know what the manager thinks of him is frustrating because he's not done a lot wrong since he joined the club.
Can't help but agree with him on this. Mancini is leaving him out in the cold, he isn't rotating him and Hart which would only be fair, especially if we're forcing him to stay, he deserves a go and a chance to fight for his place. I think Mancini is dealing with this really badly.

woah, woah woah, you mean the one mistake in 8 matches?

Yes that one mistake (after a bad game for England) which Given wouldn't have made, which cost us the game, what I'm saying is that he according to himself, thought he'd start, but he saw that even after Hart was awful in the game, that it doesn't matter what he does he wont get picked, that was my point. I'm not saying he should be dropped and not playing Hart in that game wouldn't have been dropping him, just resting him like 99% of our players, but it was obviously something that really frustrating.

 

[bigquinn772]

woah, woah woah, you mean the one mistake in 8 matches?

Yes that one mistake (after a bad game for England) which Given wouldn't have made, which cost us the game, what I'm saying is that he according to himself, thought he'd start, but he saw that even after Hart was awful in the game, that it doesn't matter what he does he wont get picked, that was my point. I'm not saying he should be dropped and not playing Hart in that game wouldn't have been dropping him, just resting him like 99% of our players, but it was obviously something that really frustrating.

Are you IrishMacca incognito?

 

[KenTheLandlord]

woah, woah woah, you mean the one mistake in 8 matches?

Yes that one mistake (after a bad game for England) which Given wouldn't have made, which cost us the game, what I'm saying is that he according to himself, thought he'd start, but he saw that even after Hart was awful in the game, that it doesn't matter what he does he wont get picked, that was my point. I'm not saying he should be dropped and not playing Hart in that game wouldn't have been dropping him, just resting him like 99% of our players, but it was obviously something that really frustrating.

We would have lost to Tottenham, without a shadow of a doubt if Given had been in net. Absolutely no question about that.
For the simple reason Given is not tall enough to make the saves Hart did. He just wouldn't have got there.
Carry on...

 

[Lancet Fluke]

woah, woah woah, you mean the one mistake in 8 matches?

Yes that one mistake (after a bad game for England) which Given wouldn't have made, which cost us the game, what I'm saying is that he according to himself, thought he'd start, but he saw that even after Hart was awful in the game, that it doesn't matter what he does he wont get picked, that was my point. I'm not saying he should be dropped and not playing Hart in that game wouldn't have been dropping him, just resting him like 99% of our players, but it was obviously something that really frustrating.

I reckon that Given would have been more likely to play in Austria if Hart hadn't made that mistake. If he had been "rotated" the game after that Blackburn goal, it would have led to all manner of shit headlines and imo would have sent a terrible message to Hart. I assume Given will get a chance if Hart hits a proper run of bad form but otherwise Hart will keep his place. I imagine that Given was happy with that arrangement when he was first choice.

 

[Rahart]

Yes that one mistake (after a bad game for England) which Given wouldn't have made, which cost us the game, what I'm saying is that he according to himself, thought he'd start, but he saw that even after Hart was awful in the game, that it doesn't matter what he does he wont get picked, that was my point. I'm not saying he should be dropped and not playing Hart in that game wouldn't have been dropping him, just resting him like 99% of our players, but it was obviously something that really frustrating.

We would have lost to Tottenham, without a shadow of a doubt if Given had been in net. Absolutely no question about that.
For the simple reason Given is not tall enough to make the saves Hart did. He just wouldn't have got there.
Carry on...

Given could well have made those saves, his height has never been a problem till apparently now when people are looking for reasons for him not to play. I've seen him, we've all seen him put in shifts like that. But Given would not have made that howler that Hart did.
It was down to arrogance, it was down to lack of experience but it wouldn't have happened had Given been in goal. Anyway, that's in the past now, it's pointless debating it.
Hart lost of 3 points that we can't get back and that's unforuately the harsh reality of the Prem, hopefully he'll save us points down the line, my point is that the days after and leading up the the Europa game after that match are probably the reason why Given is so demoralised, in so that he realised that it doesn't matter what he does, even if Hart plays badly, it wont make a difference. I think that's what really got to him. That was my point. Debating Hart's skills wasn't what I set out to do.<br /><br />-- Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:46 pm --<br /><br />

Yes that one mistake (after a bad game for England) which Given wouldn't have made, which cost us the game, what I'm saying is that he according to himself, thought he'd start, but he saw that even after Hart was awful in the game, that it doesn't matter what he does he wont get picked, that was my point. I'm not saying he should be dropped and not playing Hart in that game wouldn't have been dropping him, just resting him like 99% of our players, but it was obviously something that really frustrating.

I reckon that Given would have been more likely to play in Austria if Hart hadn't made that mistake. If he had been "rotated" the game after that Blackburn goal, it would have led to all manner of shit headlines and imo would have sent a terrible message to Hart. I assume Given will get a chance if Hart hits a proper run of bad form but otherwise Hart will keep his place. I imagine that Given was happy with that arrangement when he was first choice.

Mancini shouldn't care more about the media than his players. Which ultimately I think is having a real impact on him as we are seeing. He might or mightn't have gotten chewed up in the media for "dropping" England's new golden boy, but it shouldn't have mattered, he should put the players ahead of that. He can't let the media dicate the team and how he picks the team.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

We would have lost to Tottenham, without a shadow of a doubt if Given had been in net. Absolutely no question about that.
For the simple reason Given is not tall enough to make the saves Hart did. He just wouldn't have got there.
Carry on...

Given could well have made those saves, his height has never been a problem till apparently now when people are looking for reasons for him not to play. I've seen him, we've all seen him put in shifts like that. But Given would not have made that howler that Hart did.
It was down to arrogance, it was down to lack of experience but it wouldn't have happened had Given been in goal. Anyway, that's in the past now, it's pointless debating it.
Hart lost of 3 points that we can't get back and that's unforuately the harsh reality of the Prem, hopefully he'll save us points down the line, my point is that the days after and leading up the the Europa game after that match are probably the reason why Given is so demoralised, in so that he realised that it doesn't matter what he does, even if Hart plays badly, it wont make a difference. I think that's what really got to him. That was my point. Debating Hart's skills wasn't what I set out to do.

How did Hart drop 3 points in a draw?
And yes, you won me over
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y0kpT_DD6I&feature=related[/youtube]
Never St Shay, not on his shift

 

[Dennis.has.done.it]

We would have lost to Tottenham, without a shadow of a doubt if Given had been in net. Absolutely no question about that.
For the simple reason Given is not tall enough to make the saves Hart did. He just wouldn't have got there.
Carry on...

Given could well have made those saves, his height has never been a problem till apparently now when people are looking for reasons for him not to play. I've seen him, we've all seen him put in shifts like that. But Given would not have made that howler that Hart did.
It was down to arrogance, it was down to lack of experience but it wouldn't have happened had Given been in goal. Anyway, that's in the past now, it's pointless debating it.
Hart lost of 3 points that we can't get back and that's unforuately the harsh reality of the Prem, hopefully he'll save us points down the line, my point is that the days after and leading up the the Europa game after that match are probably the reason why Given is so demoralised, in so that he realised that it doesn't matter what he does, even if Hart plays badly, it wont make a difference. I think that's what really got to him. That was my point. Debating Hart's skills wasn't what I set out to do.

-- Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:46 pm --

I reckon that Given would have been more likely to play in Austria if Hart hadn't made that mistake. If he had been "rotated" the game after that Blackburn goal, it would have led to all manner of shit headlines and imo would have sent a terrible message to Hart. I assume Given will get a chance if Hart hits a proper run of bad form but otherwise Hart will keep his place. I imagine that Given was happy with that arrangement when he was first choice.

Mancini shouldn't care more about the media than his players. Which ultimately I think is having a real impact on him as we are seeing. He might or mightn't have gotten chewed up in the media for "dropping" England's new golden boy, but it shouldn't have mattered, he should put the players ahead of that. He can't let the media dicate the team and how he picks the team.

what three points ? we drew against Blackburn !

 

[Lancet Fluke]

We would have lost to Tottenham, without a shadow of a doubt if Given had been in net. Absolutely no question about that.
For the simple reason Given is not tall enough to make the saves Hart did. He just wouldn't have got there.
Carry on...

Given could well have made those saves, his height has never been a problem till apparently now when people are looking for reasons for him not to play. I've seen him, we've all seen him put in shifts like that. But Given would not have made that howler that Hart did.
It was down to arrogance, it was down to lack of experience but it wouldn't have happened had Given been in goal. Anyway, that's in the past now, it's pointless debating it.
Hart lost of 3 points that we can't get back and that's unforuately the harsh reality of the Prem, hopefully he'll save us points down the line, my point is that the days after and leading up the the Europa game after that match are probably the reason why Given is so demoralised, in so that he realised that it doesn't matter what he does, even if Hart plays badly, it wont make a difference. I think that's what really got to him. That was my point. Debating Hart's skills wasn't what I set out to do.

-- Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:46 pm --

I reckon that Given would have been more likely to play in Austria if Hart hadn't made that mistake. If he had been "rotated" the game after that Blackburn goal, it would have led to all manner of shit headlines and imo would have sent a terrible message to Hart. I assume Given will get a chance if Hart hits a proper run of bad form but otherwise Hart will keep his place. I imagine that Given was happy with that arrangement when he was first choice.

Mancini shouldn't care more about the media than his players. Which ultimately I think is having a real impact on him as we are seeing. He might or mightn't have gotten chewed up in the media for "dropping" England's new golden boy, but it shouldn't have mattered, he should put the players ahead of that. He can't let the media dicate the team and how he picks the team.

I didn't suggest he should care more about the media than his players. I actually think the main reason not play Given after one mistake by Hart would be precisely to show some care for his player and not instantly destroy his number 1's confidence. Well actually the main reason not to play Given would be that Hart is already a better keeper and will improve. The media thing was just another consideration.

 

[Rahart]

Given could well have made those saves, his height has never been a problem till apparently now when people are looking for reasons for him not to play. I've seen him, we've all seen him put in shifts like that. But Given would not have made that howler that Hart did.
It was down to arrogance, it was down to lack of experience but it wouldn't have happened had Given been in goal. Anyway, that's in the past now, it's pointless debating it.
Hart lost of 3 points that we can't get back and that's unforuately the harsh reality of the Prem, hopefully he'll save us points down the line, my point is that the days after and leading up the the Europa game after that match are probably the reason why Given is so demoralised, in so that he realised that it doesn't matter what he does, even if Hart plays badly, it wont make a difference. I think that's what really got to him. That was my point. Debating Hart's skills wasn't what I set out to do.

-- Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:46 pm --



Mancini shouldn't care more about the media than his players. Which ultimately I think is having a real impact on him as we are seeing. He might or mightn't have gotten chewed up in the media for "dropping" England's new golden boy, but it shouldn't have mattered, he should put the players ahead of that. He can't let the media dicate the team and how he picks the team.

what three points ? we drew against Blackburn !

Well you know what I mean, it would have been 3 points had he not screwed up, thankfully it was a draw, but all the same, it would have been 3 points had the lads up front not missed so many chances. It's so easy to blame defenders and keepers for such glaring obvious mistakes, but if our lads up front hadn't missed so many chances we probably would have taken all 3 anyway.

-- Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:59 pm --

Given could well have made those saves, his height has never been a problem till apparently now when people are looking for reasons for him not to play. I've seen him, we've all seen him put in shifts like that. But Given would not have made that howler that Hart did.
It was down to arrogance, it was down to lack of experience but it wouldn't have happened had Given been in goal. Anyway, that's in the past now, it's pointless debating it.
Hart lost of 3 points that we can't get back and that's unforuately the harsh reality of the Prem, hopefully he'll save us points down the line, my point is that the days after and leading up the the Europa game after that match are probably the reason why Given is so demoralised, in so that he realised that it doesn't matter what he does, even if Hart plays badly, it wont make a difference. I think that's what really got to him. That was my point. Debating Hart's skills wasn't what I set out to do.

-- Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:46 pm --



Mancini shouldn't care more about the media than his players. Which ultimately I think is having a real impact on him as we are seeing. He might or mightn't have gotten chewed up in the media for "dropping" England's new golden boy, but it shouldn't have mattered, he should put the players ahead of that. He can't let the media dicate the team and how he picks the team.

what three points ? we drew against Blackburn !

Well you know what I mean, it would have been 3 points had he not screwed up, thankfully it was a draw, but all the same, it would have been 3 points had the lads up front not missed so many chances. It's so easy to blame defenders and keepers for such glaring obvious mistakes, but if our lads up front hadn't missed so many chances we probably would have taken all 3 anyway.<br /><br />-- Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:01 am --<br /><br />

Given could well have made those saves, his height has never been a problem till apparently now when people are looking for reasons for him not to play. I've seen him, we've all seen him put in shifts like that. But Given would not have made that howler that Hart did.
It was down to arrogance, it was down to lack of experience but it wouldn't have happened had Given been in goal. Anyway, that's in the past now, it's pointless debating it.
Hart lost of 3 points that we can't get back and that's unforuately the harsh reality of the Prem, hopefully he'll save us points down the line, my point is that the days after and leading up the the Europa game after that match are probably the reason why Given is so demoralised, in so that he realised that it doesn't matter what he does, even if Hart plays badly, it wont make a difference. I think that's what really got to him. That was my point. Debating Hart's skills wasn't what I set out to do.

How did Hart drop 3 points in a draw?
And yes, you won me over
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y0kpT_DD6I&feature=related[/youtube]
Never St Shay, not on his shift

Oh for God sake, what's your agenda like I was making a point, every keeper makes mistakes, to be fair that is the only howler I can think that Given made, he is not a "St" and he like everyone else will and has made mistakes.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

what three points ? we drew against Blackburn !

Well you know what I mean, it would have been 3 points had he not screwed up, thankfully it was a draw, but all the same, it would have been 3 points had the lads up front not missed so many chances. It's so easy to blame defenders and keepers for such glaring obvious mistakes, but if our lads up front hadn't missed so many chances we probably would have taken all 3 anyway.

-- Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:59 pm --

what three points ? we drew against Blackburn !

Well you know what I mean, it would have been 3 points had he not screwed up, thankfully it was a draw, but all the same, it would have been 3 points had the lads up front not missed so many chances. It's so easy to blame defenders and keepers for such glaring obvious mistakes, but if our lads up front hadn't missed so many chances we probably would have taken all 3 anyway.

-- Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:01 am --

How did Hart drop 3 points in a draw?
And yes, you won me over
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y0kpT_DD6I&feature=related[/youtube]
Never St Shay, not on his shift

Oh for God sake, what's your agenda like I was making a point, every keeper makes mistakes, to be fair that is the only howler I can think that Given made, he is not a "St" and he like everyone else will and has made mistakes.

No agenda here, just responding to your
"Yes that one mistake (after a bad game for England) which Given wouldn't have made, which cost us the game," quote
which clearly states Given wouldn't have made that mistake.
Now you have realised everyone makes mistakes, we can move on.