Safe standing SPL pilot

[Blue Streak]

If this happens and the like's of Rangers and Celtic take it up then it's gonna open a huge can of worms.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

If this happens and the like's of Rangers and Celtic take it up then it's gonna open a huge can of worms.

In what way?

 

[WNRH]

Re: Safe Standing/SPL

Good news for SPL and those who want standing. Hope Rangers and Celtic implement it and show how good it works.

 

[Halfpenny]

If this happens and the like's of Rangers and Celtic take it up then it's gonna open a huge can of worms.

In what way?

Proof that it can be implemented in large stadiums? Could have implications for the argument in favour of safe standing in England.

 

[Blue Streak]

If this happens and the like's of Rangers and Celtic take it up then it's gonna open a huge can of worms.

In what way?

Proof that it can be implemented in large stadiums? Could have implications for the argument in favour of safe standing in England.

Sorry for the late reply. But this ^

 

[ChesterRdBlue]

I was listening to the radio the other morning and they had the minister for sport on who advised there was no demand for this in England and Wales, the presenter pointed out there was a demand from the fans and he sort of brushed it aside and said oh yes there's some calls from them and in particular the FSF, but it is against the advise of the police and footballing authorities so there would be no call for it in this country, they also debated ticket prices and how standing already happens and how surely it would be safer to have areas designed for standing. The minister just kept saying it is against advise and his priority is safety. I very much got the impression that nothing will happen and if it does it wont be any time soon.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

I was listening to the radio the other morning and they had the minister for sport on who advised there was no demand for this in England and Wales, the presenter pointed out there was a demand from the fans and he sort of brushed it aside and said oh yes there's some calls from them and in particular the FSF, but it is against the advise of the police and footballing authorities so there would be no call for it in this country, they also debated ticket prices and how standing already happens and how surely it would be safer to have areas designed for standing. The minister just kept saying it is against advise and his priority is safety. I very much got the impression that nothing will happen and if it does it wont be any time soon.

The thing is, the authorities (government, FLA, police, Prem League) keep saying ''there is no demand'' beause they keep supressing that demand. Everytime a club comes out and says something in favour of standing they get slapped back down. Clubs (like Everton) who put their heads above the water and got a bashing in their local and media for doing so then keep quiet.
Once clubs see what is going on in Scotland legitimately and safely, with crowds increased and prices down, watch clubs currently not selling out their ground (Sunderland, Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Villa, Everton etc, watch them becoming more vocal and then lets see what happens when there is a demand.
QPR and Fulham would be a prime clubs too, to increase the capacity of the ground at minimal costs.
It's going to happen..... for the past 10 years the campaign has been 2 steps forward, 4 back all the time.... now there is a jog on and it's going to get faster :)

The latest news from the FSF here - and please join the FSF (it is FREE!!!)
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/safe-standing-receives-boost-from-spl.php?id=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/safe-standin ... pl.php?id=</a>

 

[bennyboy]

I was listening to the radio the other morning and they had the minister for sport on who advised there was no demand for this in England and Wales, the presenter pointed out there was a demand from the fans and he sort of brushed it aside and said oh yes there's some calls from them and in particular the FSF, but it is against the advise of the police and footballing authorities so there would be no call for it in this country, they also debated ticket prices and how standing already happens and how surely it would be safer to have areas designed for standing. The minister just kept saying it is against advise and his priority is safety. I very much got the impression that nothing will happen and if it does it wont be any time soon.

The thing is, the authorities (government, FLA, police, Prem League) keep saying ''there is no demand'' beause they keep supressing that demand. Everytime a club comes out and says something in favour of standing they get slapped back down. Clubs (like Everton) who put their heads above the water and got a bashing in their local and media for doing so then keep quiet.
Once clubs see what is going on in Scotland legitimately and safely, with crowds increased and prices down, watch clubs currently not selling out their ground (Sunderland, Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Villa, Everton etc, watch them becoming more vocal and then lets see what happens when there is a demand.
QPR and Fulham would be a prime clubs too, to increase the capacity of the ground at minimal costs.
It's going to happen..... for the past 10 years the campaign has been 2 steps forward, 4 back all the time.... now there is a jog on and it's going to get faster :)

The latest news from the FSF here - and please join the FSF (it is FREE!!!)
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/safe-standing-receives-boost-from-spl.php?id=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/safe-standin ... pl.php?id=</a>

Crowds will not increase in Scotland though.Standing at a game will not make punters come back when the product is crap.Plus most clubs in Scotland cannot afford to make the changes necessary for standing.
Again why should it be cheaper.I would imagine it will cost a fair bit to upgrade any part of the ground to safe standing.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

I was listening to the radio the other morning and they had the minister for sport on who advised there was no demand for this in England and Wales, the presenter pointed out there was a demand from the fans and he sort of brushed it aside and said oh yes there's some calls from them and in particular the FSF, but it is against the advise of the police and footballing authorities so there would be no call for it in this country, they also debated ticket prices and how standing already happens and how surely it would be safer to have areas designed for standing. The minister just kept saying it is against advise and his priority is safety. I very much got the impression that nothing will happen and if it does it wont be any time soon.

The thing is, the authorities (government, FLA, police, Prem League) keep saying ''there is no demand'' beause they keep supressing that demand. Everytime a club comes out and says something in favour of standing they get slapped back down. Clubs (like Everton) who put their heads above the water and got a bashing in their local and media for doing so then keep quiet.
Once clubs see what is going on in Scotland legitimately and safely, with crowds increased and prices down, watch clubs currently not selling out their ground (Sunderland, Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Villa, Everton etc, watch them becoming more vocal and then lets see what happens when there is a demand.
QPR and Fulham would be a prime clubs too, to increase the capacity of the ground at minimal costs.
It's going to happen..... for the past 10 years the campaign has been 2 steps forward, 4 back all the time.... now there is a jog on and it's going to get faster :)

The latest news from the FSF here - and please join the FSF (it is FREE!!!)
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/safe-standing-receives-boost-from-spl.php?id=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/safe-standin ... pl.php?id=</a>

Crowds will not increase in Scotland though.Standing at a game will not make punters come back when the product is crap.Plus most clubs in Scotland cannot afford to make the changes necessary for standing.
Again why should it be cheaper.I would imagine it will cost a fair bit to upgrade any part of the ground to safe standing.

Yes you are correct in that there will be a cost involved (unless a new stand or ground is being built).
If the standing end is being re-designed, you can increase the capacity by 80%. The FSF worked out it would be a one off cost of £80 per fan in that area to pay for the new design. I'm sure there wouldnt be many of those fans objecting to their reduced season ticket price having the £80 added on for the first season and then it's all paid for. With the £80 added on, it should still be cheaper than the current seat they are paying to stand in front of.

 

[bennyboy]

The thing is, the authorities (government, FLA, police, Prem League) keep saying ''there is no demand'' beause they keep supressing that demand. Everytime a club comes out and says something in favour of standing they get slapped back down. Clubs (like Everton) who put their heads above the water and got a bashing in their local and media for doing so then keep quiet.
Once clubs see what is going on in Scotland legitimately and safely, with crowds increased and prices down, watch clubs currently not selling out their ground (Sunderland, Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Villa, Everton etc, watch them becoming more vocal and then lets see what happens when there is a demand.
QPR and Fulham would be a prime clubs too, to increase the capacity of the ground at minimal costs.
It's going to happen..... for the past 10 years the campaign has been 2 steps forward, 4 back all the time.... now there is a jog on and it's going to get faster :)

The latest news from the FSF here - and please join the FSF (it is FREE!!!)
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/safe-standing-receives-boost-from-spl.php?id=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/news/safe-standin ... pl.php?id=</a>

Crowds will not increase in Scotland though.Standing at a game will not make punters come back when the product is crap.Plus most clubs in Scotland cannot afford to make the changes necessary for standing.
Again why should it be cheaper.I would imagine it will cost a fair bit to upgrade any part of the ground to safe standing.

Yes you are correct in that there will be a cost involved (unless a new stand or ground is being built).
If the standing end is being re-designed, you can increase the capacity by 80%. The FSF worked out it would be a one off cost of £80 per fan in that area to pay for the new design. I'm sure there wouldnt be many of those fans objecting to their reduced season ticket price having the £80 added on for the first season and then it's all paid for. With the £80 added on, it should still be cheaper than the current seat they are paying to stand in front of.

£80 Would have some of the Bluemoaners having a hairy.There was a thread about next seasons price rises a few weeks back,most were not happy about rises even though nothing has been agreed yet.:)

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Crowds will not increase in Scotland though.Standing at a game will not make punters come back when the product is crap.Plus most clubs in Scotland cannot afford to make the changes necessary for standing.
Again why should it be cheaper.I would imagine it will cost a fair bit to upgrade any part of the ground to safe standing.

Yes you are correct in that there will be a cost involved (unless a new stand or ground is being built).
If the standing end is being re-designed, you can increase the capacity by 80%. The FSF worked out it would be a one off cost of £80 per fan in that area to pay for the new design. I'm sure there wouldnt be many of those fans objecting to their reduced season ticket price having the £80 added on for the first season and then it's all paid for. With the £80 added on, it should still be cheaper than the current seat they are paying to stand in front of.

£80 Would have some of the Bluemoaners having a hairy.There was a thread about next seasons price rises a few weeks back,most were not happy about rises even though nothing has been agreed yet.:)

Well it wouldnt be an £80 increase..... just say (only an example) the price from seats to standing was £150 less (a number plucked from no where) - then you pay an additional £80.... so still a reduction of £70 for one season only.

 

[bennyboy]

Yes you are correct in that there will be a cost involved (unless a new stand or ground is being built).
If the standing end is being re-designed, you can increase the capacity by 80%. The FSF worked out it would be a one off cost of £80 per fan in that area to pay for the new design. I'm sure there wouldnt be many of those fans objecting to their reduced season ticket price having the £80 added on for the first season and then it's all paid for. With the £80 added on, it should still be cheaper than the current seat they are paying to stand in front of.

£80 Would have some of the Bluemoaners having a hairy.There was a thread about next seasons price rises a few weeks back,most were not happy about rises even though nothing has been agreed yet.:)

Well it wouldnt be an £80 increase..... just say (only an example) the price from seats to standing was £150 less (a number plucked from no where) - then you pay an additional £80.... so still a reduction of £70 for one season only.

Looks good but no way should it be cheaper.Quite a lot involved.You need a system where seats are used in European games.Looks as if it could work in a lower section but not anywhere else.
See no point in standing unless it is allowed for every game.Pretty certain City are not interested as well.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/File/Safe%20Standing%20Areas%20in%20European%20Stadia.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/Fi ... Stadia.pdf</a>

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

£80 Would have some of the Bluemoaners having a hairy.There was a thread about next seasons price rises a few weeks back,most were not happy about rises even though nothing has been agreed yet.:)

Well it wouldnt be an £80 increase..... just say (only an example) the price from seats to standing was £150 less (a number plucked from no where) - then you pay an additional £80.... so still a reduction of £70 for one season only.

Looks good but no way should it be cheaper.Quite a lot involved.You need a system where seats are used in European games.Looks as if it could work in a lower section but not anywhere else.
See no point in standing unless it is allowed for every game.Pretty certain City are not interested as well.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/File/Safe%20Standing%20Areas%20in%20European%20Stadia.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/Fi ... Stadia.pdf</a>

They are not very good pictures.... try this one (again not a brilliant picture but shows enough - the red seats on the right)
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safestanding.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safestanding.php</a>
Here, (at Bremen) there are seats that satisfy both the fans desires to stand and UEFA / FIFA regulations on all seated stadiums for European / International games.
When it is a domestic game the seats are locked upright and you have an 80% increase in the area, so for every 1000 fans seated you get 1800 standing. So an area with 3000 seated has 5200 standing. 5000 seated becomes 9000 standing. That is why it should be cheaper. If you can get 4000 fans more inside the ground, you reduce the costs but still make more on gate receipts (and food / club shop / programmes etc)
5000 @ £35 = £175,000
9000 @ £25 = £315,000

Now tell me which club wont be interested in that figure x 18 home games......

Dortmund has the biggest standing area in Europe - 25,000 fans behind the goal (think of the Holte End at Villa with a few more thousand standing there!!!!

For a European game, the seats are unlocked so fans (in theory) are able to sit down and the capacity is reduced, however fans still stand up. UEFA / FIFA guidelines insist grounds are all seated but have no requirement that states fans should be sat down! It is well known in Germany for clubs to sell more tickets in the standing area above the seated capacity for the European games on the basis that they know the fans will still be standing - but please dont tell UEFA that ;)

 

[bluemoon32]

Well it wouldnt be an £80 increase..... just say (only an example) the price from seats to standing was £150 less (a number plucked from no where) - then you pay an additional £80.... so still a reduction of £70 for one season only.

Looks good but no way should it be cheaper.Quite a lot involved.You need a system where seats are used in European games.Looks as if it could work in a lower section but not anywhere else.
See no point in standing unless it is allowed for every game.Pretty certain City are not interested as well.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/File/Safe%20Standing%20Areas%20in%20European%20Stadia.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/Fi ... Stadia.pdf</a>

They are not very good pictures.... try this one (again not a brilliant picture but shows enough - the red seats on the right)
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safestanding.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safestanding.php</a>
Here, (at Bremen) there are seats that satisfy both the fans desires to stand and UEFA / FIFA regulations on all seated stadiums for European / International games.
When it is a domestic game the seats are locked upright and you have an 80% increase in the area, so for every 1000 fans seated you get 1800 standing. So an area with 3000 seated has 5200 standing. 5000 seated becomes 9000 standing. That is why it should be cheaper. If you can get 4000 fans more inside the ground, you reduce the costs but still make more on gate receipts (and food / club shop / programmes etc)
5000 @ £35 = £175,000
9000 @ £25 = £315,000

Now tell me which club wont be interested in that figure x 18 home games......

Dortmund has the biggest standing area in Europe - 25,000 fans behind the goal (think of the Holte End at Villa with a few more thousand standing there!!!!

For a European game, the seats are unlocked so fans (in theory) are able to sit down and the capacity is reduced, however fans still stand up. UEFA / FIFA guidelines insist grounds are all seated but have no requirement that states fans should be sat down! It is well known in Germany for clubs to sell more tickets in the standing area above the seated capacity for the European games on the basis that they know the fans will still be standing - but please dont tell UEFA that ;)

On reading that i had an image of Mr Platini walking into the stadium & all the fans running round trying to find a seat, a huge game of musical chairs.

 

[Mike D]

Listening to an interview the other day on the radio with some jocky from league basially saying it might have a novelty value impact getting few more punters in initially. Long term the product is still the same i.e sh*t football that nobody could give a flying toss about.

BUT anyone thinks that this has any chance of spreading into the prem is seriously deluded. There is more chance of the Sheikh buying back the old Maine Road plot knocking down the houses and rebuilding an exact mock up og the old Maine Road complete the old outdoor pissers and the sh*thouse with no door.

 

[The Future's Blue]

To many left-wing softies around here for me, Dippers sympathisers fuck me right off.

They are at the heart of 2 massacres yet no-one seems to ever put them to blame. Their families hurt but only because their families put them there.

Harsh, but true.

 

[law74]

To many left-wing softies around here for me, Dippers sympathisers fuck me right off.

They are at the heart of 2 massacres yet no-one seems to ever put them to blame. Their families hurt but only because their families put them there.

Harsh, but true.

Oh dear, how wrong on so many levels can one person be in one realitively short post?
I am as in favour of safe standing as any (even though i am very left wing in my political stance, though not too many would eqauate me with being a softy), the Hillsborough disaster was NOT the sole fault of the Liverpool fans that went to the game, but the blame can be shared with those that allowed football stadia to become more and more decrepid over generations, likewise the South Yorkshire Police have to take some of the blame, and US, yes all those that attended games prior to this and invaded pitches, or watched pitch invasions and did nothing to prevent them occuring or occuring again are also partly responsible as it was due to this behaviour and the hooliganism that was all too prevelant at this time that led to the fences being erected, and the FA should have had the larger Liverpool following in the larger Kop end rather than the pens in the Leppings lane end.
Now read the facts of a horrible day for ALL football lovers.
96 FOOTBALL FANS went to a game and never returned.
This is the HARSH TRUTH.

 

[The Future's Blue]

To many left-wing softies around here for me, Dippers sympathisers fuck me right off.

They are at the heart of 2 massacres yet no-one seems to ever put them to blame. Their families hurt but only because their families put them there.

Harsh, but true.

Oh dear, how wrong on so many levels can one person be in one realitively short post?
I am as in favour of safe standing as any (even though i am very left wing in my political stance, though not too many would eqauate me with being a softy), the Hillsborough disaster was NOT the sole fault of the Liverpool fans that went to the game, but the blame can be shared with those that allowed football stadia to become more and more decrepid over generations, likewise the South Yorkshire Police have to take some of the blame, and US, yes all those that attended games prior to this and invaded pitches, or watched pitch invasions and did nothing to prevent them occuring or occuring again are also partly responsible as it was due to this behaviour and the hooliganism that was all too prevelant at this time that led to the fences being erected, and the FA should have had the larger Liverpool following in the larger Kop end rather than the pens in the Leppings lane end.
Now read the facts of a horrible day for ALL football lovers.
96 FOOTBALL FANS went to a game and never returned.
This is the HARSH TRUTH.

And that's why I had to put it so bluntly, in order to see what opinions are on this subject. Reading the facts is one thing, but understanding the realities is another. Many people died in horrific circumstances but does that mean we cannot talk about it?

In Heysel, and not forgetting the shit venue, crap policing, inadequate ticketing system and the nature of fans back then, the Liverpool fans caused mayhem when they decided to have a running battle with the oppo supporters leading them to try and flee the seen leading to what happened.

At Hillsborough, and not forgetting the shit venue, crap policing, road problems and nature of fans back then, the Liverpool fans decided to force their way in regardless of if they had a ticket or not leading to ensuing mayhem.

Now, I have full respect and sympathy for all those involved, and to all those who had to deal with the aftermath, but don't tell me we should still be quiet on our views because so many people died. That's the true tragedy and one that has had people fight for years to get the full story.

Yes, my post may have seemed callous but it seems that cutting to the bone is the only way to get people talking about such things.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

At Heysal, the tickets were sold to local people for the section next to the Liverpool fans. These were then sold on to Juve fans, compromising segregation of fans.

At Hillsborough, fans were held back on coaches and brought in at the last minute, leading to the potential crushing outside the ground in an area that was boxed in where the turnstiles were. The police had to open the gates to prevent crushing outside. Fans rushed through the gates (the vast majority with tickets) but no stewards directed anyone into the two outer pens that were half full.

 

[Anonymous]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9V9ehCq9aE[/youtube]

good video