SC Branch ticket allocation - What is the process?

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Prestwich_Blue

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This is causing all sorts of problems on the forum for the moderating team, with accusations being thrown around that may or may not be warranted so it's time we understood the actual process. As I understand it (and if I'm wrong then feel free to correct me if you're involved) it's somethng like this:

1) The club tells branches when they need ticket applications for games and the minimum points criteria.

2) Branches submit the number of tickets they want, together with the supporter number of qualifying members. So if the points needed are 12,000 and they apply for 10 tickets, they must have 10 members with 12k or more. In theory this ensures no one without the required points can apply for a ticket. Applying does not commit them st this stage though.

3) The club decide on the SC allocation and inform the branch. So the branch applying for 10 might get 5.

4) The branch can then allocate the ticket to whoever they want once they've got them (although some may be strict and only allocate to numbers that originally applied)

5) This is the bit I'm a bit unclear on. The branch has to tell the club the supporter numbers of the 5 who have the tickets so they get the points. Those 5 aren't necessarily the 10 whose numbers supported the application so any of these 10 whose numbers weren't actually confirmed to the club could just get their own tickets (and the OSC may well have told branches that this is the best course of action for popular games).

6) The tickets go on sale through the normal route and anyone who qualifies via the points route can buy as long as their number hadn't been confirmed as a ticket recipient by the branch

If that's the case, the process appears to be OK up to and including step 3 and anyone saying branches can't apply unless the members meet the points criteria is actually correct. However there is no control over allocation once tickets are in the hands of the branch. Some may be strict and only allocate tickets to those who had the required points. But some clearly don't. But if my step 5 is right the club must know that supporter numbers they're being given didn't meet the criteria, so they're effectively complicit in this. And if they know, then the OSC certainly do.

I'm not interested in whether people believe the process is fair or not, any stories they have about abuse (unless they add anything to the understanding of the process) or any other opinions. Any posts that add nothing to the understanding will be deleted. We just want the facts and anyone who knows the process to tell us if it's right or wrong. If the latter, why it's wrong and what the right answer is. If people want to pm me that's fine. Their name won't be used.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
This is causing all sorts of problems on the forum for the moderating team, with accusations being thrown around that may or may not be warranted so it's time we understood the actual process. As I understand it (and if I'm wrong then feel free to correct me if you're involved) it's something like this:
Click to expand...

I will surprised if anyone can answer with any authority on the whole SC procedure even for their own branch let alone for the over 100 different branches who all have their own systems.

What I do know is the SC does get annual lists of members from branches including member's own supporters numbers. So I am sure when allocating tickets to branches the OSC are fully aware from experience when clubs are overbidding regularly or on a one off basis and whether they have a lot of JCLs. My own branch always plays fair and always gets treated fairly.

Branches never know their allocation until they get it and have their own procedures for sub allocation within the branch, ranging from ballot to their own loyalty schemes. It would be a strange branch in which unqualified fans got tickets when they were wanted by people who were qualified and if members accept that they only have themselves to blame. Like any form of obtaining tickets there is always the possibility of Fan A passing his ticket to Fan B. It happens all the time - if I couldn't go to a home match I would let my son or a friend use my season card.

The way you have brought up the matter makes it too narrow and conversely too broad in parts to answer fully for all steps, certainly for me, and the call of a pint or two Merlin's Gold is too strong. But it does strike me that the numbers of tickets involved are relatively small because many SC members get the tickets direct from the club themselves and of those who go through the SC qualify in their own right anyway and use the SC bid for convenience. Take all them out of the frame and I reckon there are very few non-entitled persons getting regular tickets. I would hope so anyway.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
From dealings with my own branch:-
The branch is informed of a cut off date for applications from the supporters club
You must be a citizen card or sc holder to apply for tickets
The club applies for the relevant number of tickets
The club is allocated a number of tickets equal to or less than the request
The club is free to allocate the ticket to whom ever it wishes from the original applicants

We operate a points system to decide such occasions, gained from attendance etc
Nothing to do with loyalty points etc, a newbie can have get tickets in advance of a veteran, draw your own conclusions!
 
Thanks for the responses so far. I don't expect to be able to detail the process for each and every branch as all will do it differently. The things I really want to be able to understand are:
1) Does the branch know what the likely criteria are or are they just asked to submit applications by a given date?
2) Do they just ask for x tickets and leave it to the club/OSC to check on qualification or do they have to show that there are x members who meet the criteria?
3) Does the branch then tell the club who the ticket points go to?

Obviously anyone can get a ticket and give it to someone else. That's not a problem specific to Supporters Clubs.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Thanks for the responses so far. I don't expect to be able to detail the process for each and every branch as all will do it differently. The things I really want to be able to understand are:
1) Does the branch know what the likely criteria are or are they just asked to submit applications by a given date?
2) Do they just ask for x tickets and leave it to the club/OSC to check on qualification or do they have to show that there are x members who meet the criteria?
3) Does the branch then tell the club who the ticket points go to?

Obviously anyone can get a ticket and give it to someone else. That's not a problem specific to Supporters Clubs.
Click to expand...
1) applications by a given date, the club will have an idea from similar games as to what its allocation is likely to be
2) apply for X tickets, no further criteria applies
3) yes, hence all applicants should be card holders, also whoever gets the ticket from the supporters club cannot also apply independantly to the club
 
This is exactly the sort of stuff I wanted to know. so from replies on here and others I've had so far, it looks like the process is:
1) Branch gets informed of cut-off date.
2) Branch applies for x tickets and branches may have different criteria for managing applications. But there have to be enough members with S/T's or Cityzen cards to support the number of tickets applied for and the club can cross-reference this as they know which supporter number is linked to which branch.
3) Branch gets tickets and uses whatever system it has to allocate those.
4) The branch tells the club who the ticket has gone to and they get the points.
5) You can't get the points from a branch and also apply independently.

If anyone has anything pertinent to add then please do so but, as I said, this is just a fact-finding exercise so we have something concrete to enable us to deal with these arguments. So any opinions that don't add to the understanding aren't required and will be deleted.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
This is causing all sorts of problems on the forum for the moderating team, with accusations being thrown around that may or may not be warranted so it's time we understood the actual process. As I understand it (and if I'm wrong then feel free to correct me if you're involved) it's somethng like this:

1) The club tells branches when they need ticket applications for games and the minimum points criteria.

2) Branches submit the number of tickets they want, together with the supporter number of qualifying members. So if the points needed are 12,000 and they apply for 10 tickets, they must have 10 members with 12k or more. In theory this ensures no one without the required points can apply for a ticket. Applying does not commit them st this stage though.

3) The club decide on the SC allocation and inform the branch. So the branch applying for 10 might get 5.

4) The branch can then allocate the ticket to whoever they want once they've got them (although some may be strict and only allocate to numbers that originally applied)

5) This is the bit I'm a bit unclear on. The branch has to tell the club the supporter numbers of the 5 who have the tickets so they get the points. Those 5 aren't necessarily the 10 whose numbers supported the application so any of these 10 whose numbers weren't actually confirmed to the club could just get their own tickets (and the OSC may well have told branches that this is the best course of action for popular games).

6) The tickets go on sale through the normal route and anyone who qualifies via the points route can buy as long as their number hadn't been confirmed as a ticket recipient by the branch

If that's the case, the process appears to be OK up to and including step 3 and anyone saying branches can't apply unless the members meet the points criteria is actually correct. However there is no control over allocation once tickets are in the hands of the branch. Some may be strict and only allocate tickets to those who had the required points. But some clearly don't. But if my step 5 is right the club must know that supporter numbers they're being given didn't meet the criteria, so they're effectively complicit in this. And if they know, then the OSC certainly do.

I'm not interested in whether people believe the process is fair or not, any stories they have about abuse (unless they add anything to the understanding of the process) or any other opinions. Any posts that add nothing to the understanding will be deleted. We just want the facts and anyone who knows the process to tell us if it's right or wrong. If the latter, why it's wrong and what the right answer is. If people want to pm me that's fine. Their name won't be used.
Click to expand...


That would be about right
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Thanks for the responses so far. I don't expect to be able to detail the process for each and every branch as all will do it differently. The things I really want to be able to understand are:
1) Does the branch know what the likely criteria are or are they just asked to submit applications by a given date?
2) Do they just ask for x tickets and leave it to the club/OSC to check on qualification or do they have to show that there are x members who meet the criteria?
3) Does the branch then tell the club who the ticket points go to?

Obviously anyone can get a ticket and give it to someone else. That's not a problem specific to Supporters Clubs.
Click to expand...
 
Point no3 is open to abuse those in the supporters club rely on the integrity of those running the branch.
 
When the branch applies they have no idea if they will get the amount asked for or any at all .whose ever SC it is who qualified for the ticket cannot then apply again at the club
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
This is exactly the sort of stuff I wanted to know. so from replies on here and others I've had so far, it looks like the process is:
1) Branch gets informed of cut-off date.
2) Branch applies for x tickets and branches may have different criteria for managing applications. But there have to be enough members with S/T's or Cityzen cards to support the number of tickets applied for and the club can cross-reference this as they know which supporter number is linked to which branch.
3) Branch gets tickets and uses whatever system it has to allocate those.
4) The branch tells the club who the ticket has gone to and they get the points.
5) You can't get the points from a branch and also apply independently.

If anyone has anything pertinent to add then please do so but, as I said, this is just a fact-finding exercise so we have something concrete to enable us to deal with these arguments. So any opinions that don't add to the understanding aren't required and will be deleted.
Click to expand...
This is exactly the process from.... Someone who has helped operate a branch for over 5yrs now.

However one significant point to make is that branches do not know how many loyalty points each member has.
Sure MemberXXX could say they have #### amount of points but there is no proof.
Only MCFC know this.

At our branch we introduced our own Loyalty points system so members gain a point for each time they attend a meeting.
When we distribute tickets this is based on meetings attended.
So we don't just have any Tom, dick or Harry ruck up to our branch, join on the same day, apply for a ticket and a week later they're sat in the away end at the Swamp.

Some branches may operate like this??
But we don't as we respect members who have significant amount of MCFC points and also attend branch meetings regularly.
 
i presume a SC could apply for 10 tickets using 10 numbers with enough qualifying points then allocate the 10 tickets they receive to 10 who wouldnt have enough points to qualify then the 10 numbers they used could get tickets direct from he club so then they would have 20 tickets at that branch?
 
From what I know some supporters clubs try and maximise the amount of tickets they will get for a specific fixture. It's important to remember that at the point a supporters club applies for their allocation, no one, including the club know how many loyalty points will be required to get a ticket through normal channels. That can only really be determined once all tickets are sold. SC'S get allocated their tickets well before the tickets go on sale. They might have a good idea from history but they won't know. The only stipulation to qualify for a ticket through a supporters club is that you must be a member of the branch and you must have a city card membership minimum. The amount of points is irrelevant. To suggest that the coach load of people from our branch attending the swamp had over the required points is nonsense. With 13,500 points I can no longer get a ticket for the swamp derby.

I was very often told to apply independently of the club as generally I would have enough points on my card myself. This would allow those with not enough points to potentially get a ticket through the branch allocation.

It's no surprise that with more and more SC'S springing up it is getting harder to qualify for tickets through the normal channels as more supporters clubs consume more of the tickets available. Allocations to SC's may be getting less but there are more SC's requesting allocations.

The current system is flawed and needs re-working to respect the fans that want to travel independently of a supporters club for whom it is getting harder and harder to qualify for the smaller away allocations.
 
In our branch we rarely get more than 25% of the number of tickets we request using the season ticket number of the member who requested the ticket. In some cases we will only get a couple regardless of numbers requested. We have a branch loyalty point system for allocating the tickets to the members who requested the ticket with the highest number of branch loyalty points . Members get points for attend meetings, use our travel facilities, etc.
 
Paulpowersleftfoot said:
i presume a SC could apply for 10 tickets using 10 numbers with enough qualifying points then allocate the 10 tickets they receive to 10 who wouldnt have enough points to qualify then the 10 numbers they used could get tickets direct from he club so then they would have 20 tickets at that branch?
Click to expand...
At what point do supporters clubs find out they have received x amount of tickets? Before they go on sale or on the day or a few days after?
 
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