Sheffield United (A) | PL | Post-Match Thread

Booker4 said:
How is saying City has always been a massive club something to be critical of! I know my football more than most, I know City were huge in the 70's, they won various trophies, they were and have always been a big club. I started following football in the late 80's when I recall City were not as strong as the days with Bell, Summerbee, Lee etc, but they were not shit either, not in my book! City under Kendall were decent, they had some decent times under Peter Reid, under Royle and Keegan were great sides to watch, they had some really good players, particularly under Keegan they spent well. I recall the quality of those sides; they were definitely not shit, it's just a chant that football fans say because it's easy to say.

Ok, it might be "bingo" when I say I preferred City then, I'm not anti Man City at all and that includes now. I'm not getting into the ongoing stuff of accusations v City from UEFA but I just want to see a model that is sustainable for all, call me a dreamer as Brian Clough said, one not run by people with insane money. A league where we can have 51% ownership like in Germany. That's what I want and it will never happen. So any post on money is not particularly aimed at City. I've always respected City and even though I prefer City of old, I didn't see it as shit as I say, but City of old or like anyone without serious backing (just look at Leeds now who despite been a huge club find themselves back in the Championship ) just can't compete at the very top- not to win trophies anyway, it's sad but but it's the model we have allowed to flourish in this country.
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The system in Germany has created the monster that is Bayern. So that isn't working too well either.
I can see the middle east getting more top players over the next few years which may, as an unintended consequence, go some way towards levelling up the quality of the EPL as there will be fewer 'world class' players in our league.
 
Just watched the highlights again. Aside from their keepers saves Haaland and Alvarez both missed two good chances you'd normally expect them to score. Their goal was the sort of ludicrous defending I thought we'd cut out of our game. First Walkers ridiculous back heel and then nobody got out quickly enough to close down Bogel. We almost slipped up again in the last minute leaving their player completely free at the back post? Walker again? With a bit more luck it could have been 5-1 but in the end we were relieved to escape with three points. Strange game. Can we please find a reliable penalty taker? Keep missing them is making games much harder!
 
Booker4 said:
How is saying City has always been a massive club something to be critical of! I know my football more than most, I know City were huge in the 70's, they won various trophies, they were and have always been a big club. I started following football in the late 80's when I recall City were not as strong as the days with Bell, Summerbee, Lee etc, but they were not shit either, not in my book! City under Kendall were decent, they had some decent times under Peter Reid, under Royle and Keegan were great sides to watch, they had some really good players, particularly under Keegan they spent well. I recall the quality of those sides; they were definitely not shit, it's just a chant that football fans say because it's easy to say.

Ok, it might be "bingo" when I say I preferred City then, I'm not anti Man City at all and that includes now. I'm not getting into the ongoing stuff of accusations v City from UEFA but I just want to see a model that is sustainable for all, call me a dreamer as Brian Clough said, one not run by people with insane money. A league where we can have 51% ownership like in Germany. That's what I want and it will never happen. So any post on money is not particularly aimed at City. I've always respected City and even though I prefer City of old, I didn't see it as shit as I say, but City of old or like anyone without serious backing (just look at Leeds now who despite been a huge club find themselves back in the Championship ) just can't compete at the very top- not to win trophies anyway, it's sad but but it's the model we have allowed to flourish in this country.
Click to expand...
......Parklife....
 
Grassland Blue said:
The system in Germany has created the monster that is Bayern. So that isn't working too well either.
I can see the middle east getting more top players over the next few years which may, as an unintended consequence, go some way towards levelling up the quality of the EPL as there will be fewer 'world class' players in our league.
Click to expand...
I take your point re Bayern, they're just an exceptionally big club full top though and the natural big fish in the pond there. How has the 5o plus 1 rule made Bayern so dominant then? Is that due to the 50 plus 1 rule? I'm not so sure there but do stand to be corrected. As I said earlier, any frustrations I have are not with City, it's how the model is allowed to be that is the issue and without regulation then we've created a monster in itself in my view. We've got the ownership issues that even the bigger clubs too are affected by such as Man U in terms of a leveraged buy out, we've got wages and transfer fees spiralling out of control, ticket prices that are ridiculous and earnings from them are no longer the main source of income yet they continue to be sky high. If people are happy with this then there's something fundamentally wrong!
VOOMER said:
The German model involves state subsidies, including discounted travel, covering discounts on match and season tickets, development grants to cover stadium development. Its a one team league, with virtually every other club teetering on folding every season. As for Brian Clough bollocks, Forrest, that's Forrest with average gates below 30,000 (when we still had standing), paid a world record for a goalkeeper and then equalled the world record when they bought Trevor Francis. Every team that's ever won the league, has had significant financial backing.
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Some of the stuff re German football does not need to be necessarily replicated here but we desperately need more fan ownership/control from fans in our clubs and a more even distribution of wealth from the PL to the rest of the football league. I can't ever see subsidised travel or matches coming in from the government but the wealth created from the PL needs distributing more so away from astronomical wages and transfer fees and into a more sustainable model. Ticket prices shouldn't be £50 plus in my view. I paid £41 yesterday and that is a lot too in my view, too much. Maybe my views are seen as contrary to the investment City have invested into the club and maybe if we had more regulation than City wouldn't have been as successful but that's not the aim, the aim is for a sustainable model in my view that doesn't rely on billionaire run clubs even for teams towards the bottom in some cases.

You're right re Forest that they did spend money, I'm not one for defending Forest but the point is that back in the pre-premier league days the league could be won, and was won, by a series of teams not just one or two. Granted we've had several winners of the PL, but with the investment that City has spent it's taken it to yet another level and when clubs of Liverpool and Man U's size are struggling to make up the difference then you've got a situation that you've mentioned with Bayern, approaching a one team league.

I'm not saying for one minute it's just down to just spending money on players because it isn't. City also have the best manager in the league, one of the best academies and I know they've great in the community also. All of that of course takes huge investment though it has to be said in terms of the training ground/academy and the budget that City has attracts the best manager too. I don't want to come across as criticising City because it's not City it's the league as a whole which has become a monster in my view, what's happened at City is the stuff of dreams for City fans, particularly those that were there in the days before, but for teams like mine, just surviving in the PL is near impossible without a serious amount of cash, beyond what we can afford. We did it for two seasons last time but it can only last so long without serious investment that requires billionaire owners or not far off. If you're happy with as it is now, that's your prerogative, with respect I don't agree.

Anyway, I've digressed away from yesterdays match, all the best, I appreciate the respect people have shown to me on here, I've said everything I wanted to and answered as best possible points back, we'll not agree on some things. Take care as I said, God bless.
 
Booker4 said:
I take your point re Bayern, they're just an exceptionally big club full top though and the natural big fish in the pond there. How has the 5o plus 1 rule made Bayern so dominant then? Is that due to the 50 plus 1 rule? I'm not so sure there but do stand to be corrected. As I said earlier, any frustrations I have are not with City, it's how the model is allowed to be that is the issue and without regulation then we've created a monster in itself in my view. We've got the ownership issues that even the bigger clubs too are affected by such as Man U in terms of a leveraged buy out, we've got wages and transfer fees spiralling out of control, ticket prices that are ridiculous and earnings from them are no longer the main source of income yet they continue to be sky high. If people are happy with this then there's something fundamentally wrong!

Some of the stuff re German football does not need to be necessarily replicated here but we desperately need more fan ownership/control from fans in our clubs and a more even distribution of wealth from the PL to the rest of the football league. I can't ever see subsidised travel or matches coming in from the government but the wealth created from the PL needs distributing more so away from astronomical wages and transfer fees and into a more sustainable model. Ticket prices shouldn't be £50 plus in my view. I paid £41 yesterday and that is a lot too in my view, too much. Maybe my views are seen as contrary to the investment City have invested into the club and maybe if we had more regulation than City wouldn't have been as successful but that's not the aim, the aim is for a sustainable model in my view that doesn't rely on billionaire run clubs even for teams towards the bottom in some cases.

You're right re Forest that they did spend money, I'm not one for defending Forest but the point is that back in the pre-premier league days the league could be won, and was won, by a series of teams not just one or two. Granted we've had several winners of the PL, but with the investment that City has spent it's taken it to yet another level and when clubs of Liverpool and Man U's size are struggling to make up the difference then you've got a situation that you've mentioned with Bayern, approaching a one team league.

I'm not saying for one minute it's just down to just spending money on players because it isn't. City also have the best manager in the league, one of the best academies and I know they've great in the community also. All of that of course takes huge investment though it has to be said in terms of the training ground/academy and the budget that City has attracts the best manager too. I don't want to come across as criticising City because it's not City it's the league as a whole which has become a monster in my view, what's happened at City is the stuff of dreams for City fans, particularly those that were there in the days before, but for teams like mine, just surviving in the PL is near impossible without a serious amount of cash, beyond what we can afford. We did it for two seasons last time but it can only last so long without serious investment that requires billionaire owners or not far off. If you're happy with as it is now, that's your prerogative, with respect I don't agree.

Anyway, I've digressed away from yesterdays match, all the best, I appreciate the respect people have shown to me on here, I've said everything I wanted to and answered as best possible points back, we'll not agree on some things. Take care as I said, God bless.
Click to expand...
Most of what you are advocating is what the old sky4 want(ed), ie dominance over anyone else like they had for years, and you'd have mufc winning most trophies, with lfc, afc, and cfc mopping up the dregs, so there is a bit of choice to be had here. Outside investment or not.

You probably only ever read about the money spent to win trophies, and know nothing about the money City's owners have invested in infrastructure around the local area of east Manchester, and that's probably more than into the team itself. The reason you don't hear about this, is that our media also want the old sky4 restored, so they don't report on it.

City, yes our club, took on a filthy brown field site that was a wasteground, they cleaned it up at great expence, then built a state of the art facility on it, to produce top quality footballers at a football "university" that actually starts with 8 year olds, not just to produce talent for us, but for lots of other clubs (2 of which helped you to get into the PL last year by the way). Nothing is ever said about this in the media, yet what do mufc do for football (at all levels), oh yes they produced the class of 92, over 30 years ago, and we'll never hear the end of it. Meanwhile City are producing top class talent (yes we make money out of it), year after year, actually developing footballers, we keep a few, but the ones that move on, are trained and educated by City, so we are giving back to football.

All we ever get from the media (and other fans) is slagged off for our huge spending, and because we "bought football". We didn't buy football, we made huge investments into football to get to this point, and very much not all of it has gone on players, large areas of east Manchester have also been improved as a result of that investment (and that continues today).

Anyway rant over.
 
Booker4 said:
How is saying City has always been a massive club something to be critical of! I know my football more than most, I know City were huge in the 70's, they won various trophies, they were and have always been a big club. I started following football in the late 80's when I recall City were not as strong as the days with Bell, Summerbee, Lee etc, but they were not shit either, not in my book! City under Kendall were decent, they had some decent times under Peter Reid, under Royle and Keegan were great sides to watch, they had some really good players, particularly under Keegan they spent well. I recall the quality of those sides; they were definitely not shit, it's just a chant that football fans say because it's easy to say.

Ok, it might be "bingo" when I say I preferred City then, I'm not anti Man City at all and that includes now. I'm not getting into the ongoing stuff of accusations v City from UEFA but I just want to see a model that is sustainable for all, call me a dreamer as Brian Clough said, one not run by people with insane money. A league where we can have 51% ownership like in Germany. That's what I want and it will never happen. So any post on money is not particularly aimed at City. I've always respected City and even though I prefer City of old, I didn't see it as shit as I say, but City of old or like anyone without serious backing (just look at Leeds now who despite been a huge club find themselves back in the Championship ) just can't compete at the very top- not to win trophies anyway, it's sad but but it's the model we have allowed to flourish in this country.
Click to expand...
Did you moan about money thing to rags
chelseas dippers of the world pre 2008?
51% ownership? careful what you wish for .
 
Booker4 said:
I take your point re Bayern, they're just an exceptionally big club full top though and the natural big fish in the pond there. How has the 5o plus 1 rule made Bayern so dominant then? Is that due to the 50 plus 1 rule? I'm not so sure there but do stand to be corrected. As I said earlier, any frustrations I have are not with City, it's how the model is allowed to be that is the issue and without regulation then we've created a monster in itself in my view. We've got the ownership issues that even the bigger clubs too are affected by such as Man U in terms of a leveraged buy out, we've got wages and transfer fees spiralling out of control, ticket prices that are ridiculous and earnings from them are no longer the main source of income yet they continue to be sky high. If people are happy with this then there's something fundamentally wrong!

Some of the stuff re German football does not need to be necessarily replicated here but we desperately need more fan ownership/control from fans in our clubs and a more even distribution of wealth from the PL to the rest of the football league. I can't ever see subsidised travel or matches coming in from the government but the wealth created from the PL needs distributing more so away from astronomical wages and transfer fees and into a more sustainable model. Ticket prices shouldn't be £50 plus in my view. I paid £41 yesterday and that is a lot too in my view, too much. Maybe my views are seen as contrary to the investment City have invested into the club and maybe if we had more regulation than City wouldn't have been as successful but that's not the aim, the aim is for a sustainable model in my view that doesn't rely on billionaire run clubs even for teams towards the bottom in some cases.

You're right re Forest that they did spend money, I'm not one for defending Forest but the point is that back in the pre-premier league days the league could be won, and was won, by a series of teams not just one or two. Granted we've had several winners of the PL, but with the investment that City has spent it's taken it to yet another level and when clubs of Liverpool and Man U's size are struggling to make up the difference then you've got a situation that you've mentioned with Bayern, approaching a one team league.

I'm not saying for one minute it's just down to just spending money on players because it isn't. City also have the best manager in the league, one of the best academies and I know they've great in the community also. All of that of course takes huge investment though it has to be said in terms of the training ground/academy and the budget that City has attracts the best manager too. I don't want to come across as criticising City because it's not City it's the league as a whole which has become a monster in my view, what's happened at City is the stuff of dreams for City fans, particularly those that were there in the days before, but for teams like mine, just surviving in the PL is near impossible without a serious amount of cash, beyond what we can afford. We did it for two seasons last time but it can only last so long without serious investment that requires billionaire owners or not far off. If you're happy with as it is now, that's your prerogative, with respect I don't agree.

Anyway, I've digressed away from yesterdays match, all the best, I appreciate the respect people have shown to me on here, I've said everything I wanted to and answered as best possible points back, we'll not agree on some things. Take care as I said, God bless.
Click to expand...

We like the model as it is now, why would we want to change it when we are smashing it?
 
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