Shootings in Paris

[hilts]

No I don't, I read it and disagree but I appreciate that he took the time to post what he believes. A lot more constructive than the posts that followed mocking him without even reading it.

Why not tell him it's a pathetic attempt to shift the blame then?

Why would I when it's not what I think? I would rather read someone else's point of view than mock them without even reading it. I thanked him because he put another point of view.

What it was and it has been done many times is the classic when i cannot logically defend someone's actions any longer i just claim they didn't do it anyhow

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Has anyone heard about Helric Fredou. Apparently he was involved in the investigation of the Charlie Hebdo murders and had been assigned to investigate one of the victims family. Apparently he then went back to the police hotel and shot himself before completing the report. He didn't leave a note or anything to suggest why he decided to end his own life, but the authorities are blaming depression and burnout.

Or is this just another conspiracy theory ?

 

[Barcon]

Edited as I really can't be arsed.

 

[Balti]

Offended people love to share the fact they're offended. They forget that the right to free speech protects their right to tell anyone who will listen that they're offended.

 

[mancityvstoke]

No one can justify shooting a wounded policeman lying on the floor with his hands up.

No one can justify shooting shoppers randomly with a powerful rifle in a European City.

It's murder and that's it. Brutal and barbaric.


Offended or not I'm quite sure a lot of people are offended by the actions of these murderous individuals.

Including the families of those murdered.

That's how most normal people see this.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

I think there should be a limit on post length - who the fuck is going to read that last one?

tl;dr

The West is ignorant about the East's cultural and scientific achievements (absolute bollocks, might I say, every man and his dog knows we use an Arabic numeral system).
The American government has been responsible for conspiring against its own citizens in the past.
The attack in Paris is a conspiracy.
9/11 is a conspiracy.

Think that about sums it up.

I wish I hadn't read as much of it as I did.

Nope

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Arabic_numerals.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/ ... erals.html</a>

I was being deliberately ambiguous when I said the "East's" cultural and scientific achievements. Maybe I should have put Arabic in inverted commas, but you're correct it was invented by Indian mathematicians.

 

[Balti]

Has anyone heard about Helric Fredou. Apparently he was involved in the investigation of the Charlie Hebdo murders and had been assigned to investigate one of the victims family. Apparently he then went back to the police hotel and shot himself before completing the report. He didn't leave a note or anything to suggest why he decided to end his own life, but the authorities are blaming depression and burnout.

Or is this just another conspiracy theory ?

perhaps he came across a cartoon that made him smile and felt so disgusted with himself that he felt obliged to murder himself?

 

[andyhinch]

tl;dr

The West is ignorant about the East's cultural and scientific achievements (absolute bollocks, might I say, every man and his dog knows we use an Arabic numeral system).
The American government has been responsible for conspiring against its own citizens in the past.
The attack in Paris is a conspiracy.
9/11 is a conspiracy.

Think that about sums it up.

I wish I hadn't read as much of it as I did.

Nope

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Arabic_numerals.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/ ... erals.html</a>

I was being deliberately ambiguous when I said the "East's" cultural and scientific achievements. Maybe I should have put Arabic in inverted commas, but you're correct it was invented by Indian mathematicians.

Ambiguous or misleading ?

 

[Chancy Termites]

Keep going Goalmole i get your points.



For a person to be allowed to be offensive without recourse it needs the unconditional support of people who may not actually agree with the initial offence caused. This is where freedom of speech to me is on precarious ground. To insult is easy, to accept the consequences of insult caused may not be so.

If i was in a pub with a bunch of friends and called somebody a "big fat ugly smelly c**t" and he took offence, i may need my mates to stop the offended person beating the crap out of me. So Charlie Hebdo having previous decided to print cartoons which it must have known would cause offence and require its "mates" to come to its aid as offence was guarenteed by ithere actions. So i ask what was the purpose of these actions, what has it proved apart from killings, rising tensions,fear and hatred all in the name of this so called freedom. As i have said from early in this thread with free speech comes great responsibility and i stick by that always.

Now im sure Charlie did not expect what happened, but surely as they had had previous encounters they must have realised their actions were dangerous and even an open invitation to any local radicalised fruitcake to proclaim all out jihad on them.

Now i know my view will not be popular here, but i do not condone terrorism and i do support the freedoms we in the west enjoy but we have to remember that the freedoms we enjoy are not neccesarily those that others want or require to live their lives and i believe it is a mistake to push our values on others as much as it is for others to try to impose their values on us. If we all do truly value freedom of speech we have to accept that people will have different views and opinions and that the way to resolve differences is not by antagonising and deriding but by understanding and dialogue.

Another way to resolve differences is for people who see their arse about things that just aren't worrying about calm down a bit and behave like the majority of people do.

If some Christians and Jews murder the remaining Charlie Hebdo staff, should we try to understand them too? After all, Islam is only one of many religions they mock.

 

[Balti]

Keep going Goalmole i get your points.



For a person to be allowed to be offensive without recourse it needs the unconditional support of people who may not actually agree with the initial offence caused. This is where freedom of speech to me is on precarious ground. To insult is easy, to accept the consequences of insult caused may not be so.

If i was in a pub with a bunch of friends and called somebody a "big fat ugly smelly c**t" and he took offence, i may need my mates to stop the offended person beating the crap out of me. So Charlie Hebdo having previous decided to print cartoons which it must have known would cause offence and require its "mates" to come to its aid as offence was guarenteed by ithere actions. So i ask what was the purpose of these actions, what has it proved apart from killings, rising tensions,fear and hatred all in the name of this so called freedom. As i have said from early in this thread with free speech comes great responsibility and i stick by that always.

Now im sure Charlie did not expect what happened, but surely as they had had previous encounters they must have realised their actions were dangerous and even an open invitation to any local radicalised fruitcake to proclaim all out jihad on them.

Now i know my view will not be popular here, but i do not condone terrorism and i do support the freedoms we in the west enjoy but we have to remember that the freedoms we enjoy are not neccesarily those that others want or require to live their lives and i believe it is a mistake to push our values on others as much as it is for others to try to impose their values on us. If we all do truly value freedom of speech we have to accept that people will have different views and opinions and that the way to resolve differences is not by antagonising and deriding but by understanding and dialogue.

Another way to resolve differences is for people who see their arse about things that just aren't worrying about calm down a bit and behave like the majority of people do.

If some Christians and Jews murder the remaining Charlie Hebdo staff, should we try to understand them too? After all, Islam is only one of many religions they mock.

I don't recall jews and christians going round murdering innocent people because they were offended by Life of Brian

maybe Monty Python didn't take the piss hard enough?

or maybe there is some other reason.......