Should National Service be mandatory ?

roubaixtuesday said:
Manners, Bernard.

And you've missed the point; you're still reliant on young people actually working for you now that you're idle. As are all retired people, of whom there are many more and with far higher incomes relative to workers than ever before.

There's been a huge transfer of wealth across generations in recent decades from young workers to the retired and in leisure IMO you should be very grateful to youngsters that they're well mannered enough to put up with the situation, rather than rioting and overturning it.
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I am reliant on no fucker especially you and you're elk I have worked hard and saved put 4 kids through university and don't need a soft **** like you to give me handouts
 
Monkfish said:
Your generation completely screwed the country, you will be one of the only generations in history to have left the country in a worst state than you found it

Get some respect for the young people trying to clear up the mess you made and hang your head in shame for your sins
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Ha fukin knob
 
BlueRockape said:
I am happy you have such good friends you are rare this generation will not have it
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Yes they will,you seem to have a very odd opinion of young people.They aren’t that different to me when I was young except they have more technology at hand that they are comfortable with.
Tell you what I have a coffee shop I’m in my 60s but get on far better and have more in common with my younger customers than many of those my age and older many of whom just seem angry about modern life and life in general,and sit moaning.
 
mosssideblue said:
the investment wouldn’t be worth it, what are you basing that on?
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Other than being cannon fodder, you aren't going to train them to any worthwhile level of specialisation in a limited period of National Service. Types of specialisations include pilots, advanced weapons systems operators, electronic warfare specialists, maintenance engineers/technicians, cyber/information systems specialists, intelligence specialists, comms specialists, air traffic/battle space management specialists, etc. Those kind of jobs are covered by regular military personnel and take years to train and develop.

I know this seems brutal, but training cannon fodder is a relatively short process, and if all you want is cannon fodder then the National Service juice isn't worth the squeeze.
 
I think if it becomes necessary to enforce signing up there should be some kind of input into it by family. Me for example would much rather sign up my 43 year old self if it meant my 17 year old son with his life ahead of him was kept out of it. I would also be more motivated to do knowing it keeps him safe, surely that's better than taking him and leaving me a pissed of angry member of the community behind further lowering the national morale .
 
hcblue95 said:
Governments who don't care about the people and the increasing wealth disparity probably mean young people have less national pride than ever. Good luck getting them to die on the front line for their country when they can't even afford to buy a one bed in it.
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Disparities in wealth, etc has nothing to do with national pride. Many people across the world and here fly a flag and it's little to do with fiscal politics, take northern Ireland for example.

It could be more of a "do you agree with what's painted on the ship and where this ship is going?" Type of question.

For many where we are heading isn't worth dying for unlike 110 years ago. And for others where were heading is a net positive but what's painted (flag, king, state) isn't reconcilable.
 
.db. said:
Yes.

National Service can be great for career development, learning new skills, gaining an education, learning life skills, bringing people of different backgrounds together who might never meet in other circumstances, it creates people with more rounded personalities, gets youths off the streets and takes them away from situations where they’re idly not attending college or work and sat around smoking weed all day, it teaches people discipline and how to set and achieve goals, it brings people out of their shells, it builds bonds and friendships that can last for life.

In counties such as Norway, NS is looked upon very positively and is done with pride.
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Absolutely agree, and National SERVICE doesn’t even have to have a sole military focus, but a more SERVICE focus.

Yes, there needs to be some basic training and discipline engendered, but for possibly 18 months of the 24, there could be a multitude of outlets, or focus, for that SERVICE.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Other than being cannon fodder, you aren't going to train them to any worthwhile level of specialisation in a limited period of National Service. Types of specialisations include pilots, advanced weapons systems operators, electronic warfare specialists, maintenance engineers/technicians, cyber/information systems specialists, intelligence specialists, comms specialists, air traffic/battle space management specialists, etc. Those kind of jobs are covered by regular military personnel and take years to train and develop.

I know this seems brutal, but training cannon fodder is a relatively short process, and if all you want is cannon fodder then the National Service juice isn't worth the squeeze.
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if you joined up now its about 45 weeks basic training plus infantry training to pass out as a basic infantryman at Catterick. Thats over 10 months. Then you would need further training to go to specialists from cook to driver to drone operator. This idea that a years national service is whats needed is for the birds - I think some people think its still square bashing and leaning which end of a Lee-Enfeild rifle is the dangerous one.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Other than being cannon fodder, you aren't going to train them to any worthwhile level of specialisation in a limited period of National Service. Types of specialisations include pilots, advanced weapons systems operators, electronic warfare specialists, maintenance engineers/technicians, cyber/information systems specialists, intelligence specialists, comms specialists, air traffic/battle space management specialists, etc. Those kind of jobs are covered by regular military personnel and take years to train and develop.

I know this seems brutal, but training cannon fodder is a relatively short process, and if all you want is cannon fodder then the National Service juice isn't worth the squeeze.
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I think your over thinking what the desired outcomes would be sought from limited NS.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Right now?

No. It would cost an absolute fortune to implement (barracks, training facilities, equipment, admin & training staff) and their would be no tangible output other than minimally trained cannon fodder.

In the future? Depends on the geopolitical situation.
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Don’t you think National Service is a mindset as much as an action?

I think there are countries who seamlessly integrate National Service into their culture and are better for it.

For decades after Britain became a more integrated member of Europe, we looked outward. However, I think a little introspection regarding Britain, who and what it us, and what it means to be British would do A LIT of people some good.

As I’ve stated, it doesn’t have to have a sole military focus, but there does need to be both a structure in place, and a modicum of understanding of service to one’s community instilled in far too many people who seem to have lost it.

Would there be some upheaval? Of course!

Everything worth anything requires sacrifice.

In the past, all gave some and some gave all.

However, in the future, perhaps all giving some can help prevent ANY having to give all.

I’m not sure if Britain is AT a tipping point or it has tipped and we are just starting to accelerate DOWN the slope, but I do know that Britain is more fractured today than I have ever seen or known it in my 60+ years.

Sure, we’ve had coal miner strikes and upheavals that seemed apocalyptic, but those were small sectors of society, affecting goal towns, etc.

However, as I look, read, and frequently visit, I see changes that seem to be coming to a head. Of course, certain areas have been on the decline since I was a nipper, while others have regenerated and are thriving. That’s normal.

What I am talking about is the country, THE SOCIETY, and the daily attitudes of everyday people.

Perhaps it’s a function of being a Manc and growing up in and around some of the poorer areas of Western Europe, but the bifurcation of society between haves and have nots, the extreme broadening of the make-up of British society, creating often opposing factions, and the seeming inability of any political will (or is it simply a lack of ability?) to address the societal decay, feels like it all needs addressing before it really starts to pick up steam.

I’m not suggesting National Service cures all of those ills, but it would create a common foundation, a starting point, and a basic understanding of being British and serving your country in some small way, that too many people lack, have never contemplated or have zero interest in.

While it might create guffaws here, I really do believe it takes a village. Today, no-one seems to know which village they belong to and no-one living in the village seems to know how to help those within it. This would be a simple first step…

GIVE SOME TIME AND EFFORT BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY FOR THE ADVANTAGES IT GIVES YOU!

And, for those that do not know what those advantages are, National Service is especially needed!
 
mosssideblue said:
I think your over thinking what the desired outcomes would be sought from limited NS.
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Not really. I'm saying a civil defence force doesn't require NS to achieve. Even someone who has completed and then left NS, they will still require kitting and operational readiness training, so why not just cut out the NS in the first place?
 
jrb said:
Yes.

17-18

Then at 18 people can decide to stay in the armed forces and make a career out of it or leave.

It would get the scrotes off the streets, and install discipline and values into young people before they become an adult.
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For those who leave school at 16, I think they should be required to do a 2 year, minimum wage, apprenticeship in a trade, where “trade” can have a broad meaning, if you so choose.

At around 18, whether planning for Uni or not, those finishing their apprenticeships and Sixth Form school leavers with GCSEs should all do their National Service together. Young people need to experience each other and understand who society is, before they shape their adult beliefs and go off into adult society with a blinkered vision.

Maybe this is all some Utopian FOC wet dream, but I think, and I definitely hope, society is worth saving.

That starts by giving young people belief in the world they’re about to enter. Whether through building it productively, or sadly, for far too many, tearing at its seams, is up to the will of the electorate and the political will of the spineless amoebas that pass for leaders these days.

Tick tock, because rust and decay waits for no man.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Don’t you think National Service is a mindset as much as an action?

I think there are countries who seamlessly integrate National Service into their culture and are better for it.

For decades after Britain became a more integrated member of Europe, we looked outward. However, I think a little introspection regarding Britain, who and what it us, and what it means to be British would do A LIT of people some good.

As I’ve stated, it doesn’t have to have a sole military focus, but there does need to be both a structure in place, and a modicum of understanding of service to one’s community instilled in far too many people who seem to have lost it.

Would there be some upheaval? Of course!

Everything worth anything requires sacrifice.

In the past, all gave some and some gave all.

However, in the future, perhaps all giving some can help prevent ANY having to give all.

I’m not sure if Britain is AT a tipping point or it has tipped and we are just starting to accelerate DOWN the slope, but I do know that Britain is more fractured today than I have ever seen or known it in my 60+ years.

Sure, we’ve had coal miner strikes and upheavals that seemed apocalyptic, but those were small sectors of society, affecting goal towns, etc.

However, as I look, read, and frequently visit, I see changes that seem to be coming to a head. Of course, certain areas have been on the decline since I was a nipper, while others have regenerated and are thriving. That’s normal.

What I am talking about is the country, THE SOCIETY, and the daily attitudes of everyday people.

Perhaps it’s a function of being a Manc and growing up in and around some of the poorer areas of Western Europe, but the bifurcation of society between haves and have nots, the extreme broadening of the make-up of British society, creating often opposing factions, and the seeming inability of any political will (or is it simply a lack of ability?) to address the societal decay, feels like it all needs addressing before it really starts to pick up steam.

I’m not suggesting National Service cures all of those ills, but it would create a common foundation, a starting point, and a basic understanding of being British and serving your country in some small way, that too many people lack, have never contemplated or have zero interest in.

While it might create guffaws here, I really do believe it takes a village. Today, no-one seems to know which village they belong to and no-one living in the village seems to know how to help those within it. This would be a simple first step…

GIVE SOME TIME AND EFFORT BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY FOR THE ADVANTAGES IT GIVES YOU!

And, for those that do not know what those advantages are, National Service is especially needed!
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Absolutely nothing wrong with civil service when it serves the community, and country and so long as it is remunerated accordingly. I'd certainly welcome a period of service for all young school leavers. National pride is certainly lacking, but you can't force people to have pride in their country if they don't believe in its values.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Not really. I'm saying a civil defence force doesn't require NS to achieve. Even someone who has completed and then left NS, they will still require kitting and operational readiness training, so why not just cut out the NS in the first place?
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Don’t you think even getting a foundation under your belt would be beneficial rather than wait until too late.

No one wants war on our doorstep but the reality is we’re clearly getting involved in maintaining European democracy which could escalate at any moment.

We are not prepared to fend off an assault like Ukraine have suffered.

It’s all idle internet chat atm as I don’t believe the Government are considering this line of action.
 
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