Silva injured now?

[Groke]

Maybe recall Sinclair?

Trevor?

 

[tonea2003]

Maybe recall Sinclair?

Trevor?

rather get sir clive

 

[Nixon_The_Bike_Thief]

Bleedin internationals :-(

No Rammy, what we have to do to tolerate them this season is not think of them as international breaks but think of them as recovery periods !

 

[kenzie115]

We have been playing Navas. He is a winger. Last season we were narrow. We also have lost Tevez who was a deep-lying forward who spent a lot of time in midfield. These two changes alone mean that the City team has been unable to dominate midfield in the way we used to, and it means that when our attacks break down, it's much easier to get at our defence.

I understand what you're saying but in Billy's defence the formation is the same in that it's 4-2-2-2, we've just got different types of players playing in the wide right and striker roles. Swap Nasri and Tevez for Navas and Dzeko in the starting line-up and the formation doesn't change but the way we play does. That said, formations are essentially just tools for tv companies and pundits to use to show the players on the pitch. No-one can say Silva plays as a left winger for us because he's all over the pitch.

I know Navas is a good player, but Spain use him almost exclusively as an impact sub. They can play with a wide man because they always have midfield control because they play 1 forward at the most and often none. Pellegrini must make a choice between a narrow team that plays through Silva, or width. You can't expect Silva to boss games if you have 2 forwards and Navas. Our best hope is that Jovetic plays in behind the forward in the Tevez hole and that that will help Silva and the midfield out.

I don't think the choice is simply a narrow team playing through Silva or width. As you alluded to with your comments about Spain, playing only one striker allows both width and a playmaker in the hole.

-------- 8 ---------- 4 -----------
-------------- 10 ----------------
-- 7 ------------------------ 11 --
--------------- 9 -----------------

This is how I'd like us to line up and depending on the opposition and form you have the following available for each position:

4/8: Yaya, Fernandinho, Rodwell, Milner, Garcia
10: Silva, Nasri, Yaya
7/11: Navas, Jovetic, Silva, Nasri, Aguero, Milner
9: Negredo, Aguero, Dzeko

Before the season, and throughout last year, the talk was of Txiki wanting us to change to a 4-3-3 system which would be used at all levels from first team to U18s, so I assumed the above was what we would see. Perhaps this is the end goal but they don't want to change too much too soon?

 

[Deleted member 52846]

The makeshift centre-back pairing has absolutely nothing to do with how open we are. All it means is that when we are attacked we are more vulnerable and against Hull, Lescott was useless at bringing the ball out of defence as he couldn't play with the ball on his right foot

That whole paragraph is completely illogical. Makes zero sense to me. Sorry.

I am not convinced by Navas. He was brilliant against Newcastle, but pretty useless against Cardiff and Hull. I'd use him as we used AJ. As an option and a game-changer.

Another terribly weak and knee jerk comment to make. He won't be used like AJ so you should get used to him being in the team almost every week. He's that good.

The formation has changed because instead of having 4 central midfielders, Tevez half and half and Aguero up top, we now have two out and out strikers, Navas out wide. We've gone from having 5 in midfield to 3 and that means the likes of Silva can't play his give and go, and it means that when we lose the ball high up the pitch, teams can just break on us and get straight into the heart of our defence

Wrong again. When you say we used 4 central midfield players, I presume you're referring to Silva/Nasri drifting inside. How many games did Tevez start in our title winning season? Could you tell me who make this mythical fifth midfield player in that season. Every reading you have of how things unfolded last season or the season before in comparison to the three games we've played this season is just wrong.

I see changes in the marking systems, tempo and pressing game. I like the latter two, but you'll never get Yaya Toure to press. That's why Toure left Barca. That and the emergence of Busquets. You cannot get a huge man like that to quickly close down opponents as soon as you lose the ball

More wrongs. Saying Yaya is incapable of pressing is like saying Silva is incapable of running. He didn't leave Barca because he couldn't press. He left because City made him a fantastic offer which meant regular football - whereas at Barca he was behind Busquets, not because Busquets is the better player, but because Busquets is a Catalonian and came through their ranks. Guardiola is on record as saying he never wanted Yaya to leave and tried to convince him to stay.

Of course I agree that to an extent the players will get better in the new set-up, but I think we'd be far better off employing the new players in Mancini's narrow system, with Navas used as a variation. if he starts, it's imperative that we only have one up top, otherwise we will be wide open.

Never going to happen so it's pointless repeating it. Managers don't use the previous managers methods, because if the previous managers methods were so effective those managers wouldn't have been sacked.

Utd tried at the start of last season to play Kagawa and wingers and it didn't work. They abandoned it. Pellegrini will have to abandon it too. if he keeps faith with it, we will be out of the title race before you know it.

You're on drugs if you think Pellegrini is going abandon his footballing ideas having been at City for two months and having played only 3 competitive games.

These are your comments to which I was responding

We are more open so far - but even a casual football watcher can see that this is in large part due to a makeshift centre back pairing which has changed three different times for the three league games we've played so far. Our formation is the same as last season, yet you've said repeatedly that Pellegrini's changed formations. He hasn't, our style of play is evolving to one with a higher tempo, a higher press, and a higher defensive line. But so far no change in formation.

I repeat again in simple terms, how does a makeshift centre-back paring make us more open? By open, I mean having no midfield protection. It means that when we lose the ball in attack, a team can counter-attack and get straight at our defence with little difficulty. The quality of our central defence makes absolutely no difference to how open we are, it just affects how capable they are of dealing with attacks when caught one on one.

I can not understand how you can seriously claim that City have not changed formation.

We have been playing Navas. He is a winger. Last season we were narrow. We also have lost Tevez who was a deep-lying forward who spent a lot of time in midfield. These two changes alone mean that the City team has been unable to dominate midfield in the way we used to, and it means that when our attacks break down, it's much easier to get at our defence

Those are facts. It's not really arguable. Yet you do, and you are relying on nothing other than blind faith in Pellegrini. An objective argument about what is happening now would be more persuasive.

Yaya Toure's game is about power. He will never ever develop the stamina to be able to play a high tempo pressing game. You have seen how long it takes for him to recover from one of his trademark runs upfield.

I know Navas is a good player, but Spain use him almost exclusively as an impact sub. They can play with a wide man because they always have midfield control because they play 1 forward at the most and often none. Pellegrini must make a choice between a narrow team that plays through Silva, or width. You can't expect Silva to boss games if you have 2 forwards and Navas. Our best hope is that Jovetic plays in behind the forward in the Tevez hole and that that will help Silva and the midfield out.

I agree. So far this season our midfield are getting no protection from anyone up front. Pressing is minimal and nobody is coming deep centrally to take the ball from or make it difficult for the oppositions DMs. Also Yaya and Fernandinho have provided zero protection for the back four/two centre halves; Yaya is notr working hard enough and Fernandinho seems more intent on forward looking play, even when the opposition have the ball.

I also wouldn't start Navas in a lot of games and use him as an impact sub like Spain do.

 

[Matt the Giant]

-------- 8 ---------- 4 -----------
-------------- 10 ----------------
-- 7 ------------------------ 11 --
--------------- 9 -----------------

This is how I'd like us to line up and depending on the opposition and form you have the following available for each position:

4/8: Yaya, Fernandinho, Rodwell, Milner, Garcia
10: Silva, Nasri, Yaya
7/11: Navas, Jovetic, Silva, Nasri, Aguero, Milner
9: Negredo, Aguero, Dzeko

Before the season, and throughout last year, the talk was of Txiki wanting us to change to a 4-3-3 system which would be used at all levels from first team to U18s, so I assumed the above was what we would see. Perhaps this is the end goal but they don't want to change too much too soon?

That's exactly how I would want to see us play. Jovetic is more than capable at the nr.10 position as well.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree. So far this season our midfield are getting no protection from anyone up front. Pressing is minimal and nobody is coming deep centrally to take the ball from or make it difficult for the oppositions DMs. Also Yaya and Fernandinho have provided zero protection for the back four/two centre halves; Yaya is notr working hard enough and Fernandinho seems more intent on forward looking play, even when the opposition have the ball.

I also wouldn't start Navas in a lot of games and use him as an impact sub like Spain do.

Funny how we can watch the same games and see things so different. Much of what you're talking about to me seems like the by product of a group of players learning a new system.

I actually didn't think the forwards not pressing was the problem against Hull or Cardiff - more that Yaya and Fernandinho were sat deeper than they were against Newcastle to protect the back four more, thus leaving a bigger gap between our forwards and midfield, which allowed the space for Huddlestone and Demel to operate within and both of them did an excellent job of playing short passes around Yaya and Fernandinho.

If we were to leave the four attacking players to attack with Yaya/Fernandinho sat deeper to protect the back four as you say, then IMO we'd end up looking no different than we did last season when we struggled in away games. It was noticeable after Cardiff the number of comments about how it was no different to a Mancini away performance, which I agreed with at the time.

Again I said this after Hull/Cardiff, but for me the manager second guessed himself because of our makeshift back four and asked Yaya/Fernandinho (along with our full backs) to not press high up the field to try and protect the centre halves more. IMO it backfired because ultimately we were caught between two stools, and I don't expect Pellegrini to make the same mistake again. Against Stoke it'll be all out attack with the high press from everyone midfield included back at full tilt.

-- Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:02 am --

I don't think the choice is simply a narrow team playing through Silva or width. As you alluded to with your comments about Spain, playing only one striker allows both width and a playmaker in the hole.

-------- 8 ---------- 4 -----------
-------------- 10 ----------------
-- 7 ------------------------ 11 --
--------------- 9 -----------------

This is how I'd like us to line up and depending on the opposition and form you have the following available for each position:

4/8: Yaya, Fernandinho, Rodwell, Milner, Garcia
10: Silva, Nasri, Yaya
7/11: Navas, Jovetic, Silva, Nasri, Aguero, Milner
9: Negredo, Aguero, Dzeko

Before the season, and throughout last year, the talk was of Txiki wanting us to change to a 4-3-3 system which would be used at all levels from first team to U18s, so I assumed the above was what we would see. Perhaps this is the end goal but they don't want to change too much too soon?

I was convinced we would set up like this and it'll be interesting to see whether Pellegrini sticks with the 4222 for league games or whether he decides to switch to a system with only one out and out striker.

 

[kenzie115]

-------- 8 ---------- 4 -----------
-------------- 10 ----------------
-- 7 ------------------------ 11 --
--------------- 9 -----------------

This is how I'd like us to line up and depending on the opposition and form you have the following available for each position:

4/8: Yaya, Fernandinho, Rodwell, Milner, Garcia
10: Silva, Nasri, Yaya
7/11: Navas, Jovetic, Silva, Nasri, Aguero, Milner
9: Negredo, Aguero, Dzeko

Before the season, and throughout last year, the talk was of Txiki wanting us to change to a 4-3-3 system which would be used at all levels from first team to U18s, so I assumed the above was what we would see. Perhaps this is the end goal but they don't want to change too much too soon?

That's exactly how I would want to see us play. Jovetic is more than capable at the nr.10 position as well.

I almost put Jovetic in the list for no.10 but took him out as I felt it became more of a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-2-2-2 again rather than the 4-3-3 (which sort of went against my point). Despite the fact they’re quite similar players, because of his goal threat I always class Jovetic as a forward and Silva/Nasri as midfielders. Also, if Jovetic and one of Silva or Nasri were in the side I’d have Jovetic left and the other central, but you’re right, he could play that role quite easily.

 

[Anonymous]

Things just aren't running for us , are they ??

 

[kenzie115]

I don't think the choice is simply a narrow team playing through Silva or width. As you alluded to with your comments about Spain, playing only one striker allows both width and a playmaker in the hole.

-------- 8 ---------- 4 -----------
-------------- 10 ----------------
-- 7 ------------------------ 11 --
--------------- 9 -----------------

This is how I'd like us to line up and depending on the opposition and form you have the following available for each position:

4/8: Yaya, Fernandinho, Rodwell, Milner, Garcia
10: Silva, Nasri, Yaya
7/11: Navas, Jovetic, Silva, Nasri, Aguero, Milner
9: Negredo, Aguero, Dzeko

Before the season, and throughout last year, the talk was of Txiki wanting us to change to a 4-3-3 system which would be used at all levels from first team to U18s, so I assumed the above was what we would see. Perhaps this is the end goal but they don't want to change too much too soon?

I was convinced we would set up like this and it'll be interesting to see whether Pellegrini sticks with the 4222 for league games or whether he decides to switch to a system with only one out and out striker.

Do you think he is (or was) possibly feeling the pressure of having two in-form strikers and arguably our most talented (and incidentally most marketable) player in Aguero to choose from, and didn’t want to leave two of them out? Dzeko had a great pre-season and given his “confidence issues” it would have been ill-advised not to have started him against Newcastle and Cardiff. It’s tough to leave Aguero out at any time if he’s fit as he’s a match winner and Negredo has performed well every time he’s come on. So he either played two up top or played Aguero wide, which he may think will reduce his influence. Personally I think he could do very well in a wide left forward position, provided it was a 4-3-3 and he was a forward, not a winger. He’s more likely to get involved in build up play being slightly deeper and can cut inside and shoot on his right foot; I think his long-range shooting is excellent and should be utilised better, and although you’d lose his pace in behind the centre backs, most teams play against us with no space behind the centre backs anyway.