wolviedinho
Well-Known Member
Yes! Jesus what kind of question is this?
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Simple Question: Do you trust our owner?
- Thread starter The Fixer
- Start date
Mr Partridge
Well-Known Member
I grew up dreaming of seeing City win trophies but never expecting it to happen. Then Sheikh Mansour made that dream come true for me. The last 10 years have been in-cre-di-ble and I will always be extremely thankful to him for that.
That said, and it could be a knee jerk reaction, but there's a part of me that would snap your hand off for Wardle or Bernstein right now...
That said, and it could be a knee jerk reaction, but there's a part of me that would snap your hand off for Wardle or Bernstein right now...
Newman Noggs
Well-Known Member
100% to do what is best for City. This shitstorm is not of our making and they will do what is best for the future of the club. Whatever shape that may take.
S
S
Summerbuzz
Guest
I think I understand his desire, more or less. I'm far more interested in Khaldoon. He's proved talented and clever. But I don't know enough to meaningfully answer the question.
But seriously - what a question.
Past the age of 16, no-one should absolutely trust anyone automatically.
Humans are falliable. And motivations and relationships are complicated.
People tell you things you want to hear, out of pure love, but sometimes you have to know they surely can't deliver. One reason why love is very much about forgiving things.
But even in business... I consider two people to paint my house. Do I trust them both exactly the same? Maybe I trust them both to not walk off the job, or steal my TV. Maybe i only trust one of them to get it done quickly.
There is no absolute trust. Then there's less risk of the overwhelming emotional turmoil when someone we trust blindly publicly 'betrays' us.
It's the sort of nonsense that leads to people flocking to UEFA's side.
I'll be frank. There are many decent minded and highly worthwhile arguments as to why this proposal is not right. But it suited people to carve into the teams who signed up initially. Because they are our rivals. They are our figures of hate and vilification. UEFA then became the enemy of the big scary enemy. And not the enemy we've looked at for years. Because this is tribal, geographic. People hate Liverpool and Utd more than anything.
And that's City's primary betrayal of the fans. They let fans wind themselves up at an agreement that they then signed up to. And then they swapped places at the table. And now the fans are looking at the things they wrote, the things others have written. And are looking at us being in bed with their true bogeyman - that lot. And are looking loss of all other solidarity as fans of every other team do the tribal political thing and pour hatred upon the clubs who are breaking away.
Brains can't compute it - but if we'd never swapped places, the fear and the outrage they experienced would hardly be a thing. Psychologists know, I was told, and I've seen it in myself - repeated, quick change of allegiances, the loss of certainty, the 'swapping of seats at the table' - deeply unsettles people. Very, very powerful feelings exist within humans that evolved in terms of life and death and warfare between shifting alliances in tribes of apes. It underpins our self-image, the 'I' we live in all day every day, and all aspects of our personality. It can fuck very hard with people. I know, I've been through it.
We're worried about our identity. And that matters. And the concern at heart is reasonable, very reasonable indeed.
But we're at risk of experiencing hysteria because of the way this happened. The way it happened, the way the alliances and positions formed and then shifted or reversed, it doesn't matter. It's what you end up with. The truth is, if people look at that moment forever, they're replaying and nurturing a memory of a trauma.
People think Trauma comes only from abuse. But it doesn't. In moments like this, it comes from moments that happen as social allegiances and alliances shift.
It comes from us too - we make our position. Sometimes we go all in. Expose our choice of allegiance to the max. Burn bridges, pour vitriol and make threats and insults. And then realise our partner at the table was playing a different game.
And that is something we have to take responsibility for as people - and that's even worse, because at that moment, you will feel like the biggest idiot, the most vulnerable fool, and you'll over compensate. Because you made a mess. And you are now sat their knowing you had a point. But you blew you prestige and ethical position by overdoing it. But that's what we do. That's what men have been doing throughout history.
Betrayal is a fact of life for mortals. Deal with it. Put the trauma and all that fear to one side. And then figure out, what do you really want. You're more selfish than you think. And kinder too. That's what we have to sort out. And sorting that out, the uncomfortable and powerful memories of what led you to 'sort it out' in the past.. it goes waaaaaay back, it really does. And that's what happens at moments like this. Look back over the whole thing. You were loved, forgiven, learned and grew. You're not perfect but you're doing your best. And you're free to choose your cause, and no-one really believes that you have to stick to one cause your whole life... just that, there's something almost taboo, something very upsetting about betraying other people. How much does that matter to you, and aren't there many other ways that we hurt and mistreat people that we just ignore because 'we believe in the cause'?
The long game for me therefore is to realise, that was the cause. Learning not to hurt people just because I believed something mattered. Because I'm fucking useless, how do I know what matters? Oh right. The people mattered.
Who are they. Do they deserve our support? Are they true to us? Do we understand why we fear others? What are their motivations and ways of working with people. Did we take care of watching that in a balanced way? Or did we just go all in on allegiances over and over again, spending our free time knitting the story together privately so it looked good.
But seriously - what a question.
Past the age of 16, no-one should absolutely trust anyone automatically.
Humans are falliable. And motivations and relationships are complicated.
People tell you things you want to hear, out of pure love, but sometimes you have to know they surely can't deliver. One reason why love is very much about forgiving things.
But even in business... I consider two people to paint my house. Do I trust them both exactly the same? Maybe I trust them both to not walk off the job, or steal my TV. Maybe i only trust one of them to get it done quickly.
There is no absolute trust. Then there's less risk of the overwhelming emotional turmoil when someone we trust blindly publicly 'betrays' us.
It's the sort of nonsense that leads to people flocking to UEFA's side.
I'll be frank. There are many decent minded and highly worthwhile arguments as to why this proposal is not right. But it suited people to carve into the teams who signed up initially. Because they are our rivals. They are our figures of hate and vilification. UEFA then became the enemy of the big scary enemy. And not the enemy we've looked at for years. Because this is tribal, geographic. People hate Liverpool and Utd more than anything.
And that's City's primary betrayal of the fans. They let fans wind themselves up at an agreement that they then signed up to. And then they swapped places at the table. And now the fans are looking at the things they wrote, the things others have written. And are looking at us being in bed with their true bogeyman - that lot. And are looking loss of all other solidarity as fans of every other team do the tribal political thing and pour hatred upon the clubs who are breaking away.
Brains can't compute it - but if we'd never swapped places, the fear and the outrage they experienced would hardly be a thing. Psychologists know, I was told, and I've seen it in myself - repeated, quick change of allegiances, the loss of certainty, the 'swapping of seats at the table' - deeply unsettles people. Very, very powerful feelings exist within humans that evolved in terms of life and death and warfare between shifting alliances in tribes of apes. It underpins our self-image, the 'I' we live in all day every day, and all aspects of our personality. It can fuck very hard with people. I know, I've been through it.
We're worried about our identity. And that matters. And the concern at heart is reasonable, very reasonable indeed.
But we're at risk of experiencing hysteria because of the way this happened. The way it happened, the way the alliances and positions formed and then shifted or reversed, it doesn't matter. It's what you end up with. The truth is, if people look at that moment forever, they're replaying and nurturing a memory of a trauma.
People think Trauma comes only from abuse. But it doesn't. In moments like this, it comes from moments that happen as social allegiances and alliances shift.
It comes from us too - we make our position. Sometimes we go all in. Expose our choice of allegiance to the max. Burn bridges, pour vitriol and make threats and insults. And then realise our partner at the table was playing a different game.
And that is something we have to take responsibility for as people - and that's even worse, because at that moment, you will feel like the biggest idiot, the most vulnerable fool, and you'll over compensate. Because you made a mess. And you are now sat their knowing you had a point. But you blew you prestige and ethical position by overdoing it. But that's what we do. That's what men have been doing throughout history.
Betrayal is a fact of life for mortals. Deal with it. Put the trauma and all that fear to one side. And then figure out, what do you really want. You're more selfish than you think. And kinder too. That's what we have to sort out. And sorting that out, the uncomfortable and powerful memories of what led you to 'sort it out' in the past.. it goes waaaaaay back, it really does. And that's what happens at moments like this. Look back over the whole thing. You were loved, forgiven, learned and grew. You're not perfect but you're doing your best. And you're free to choose your cause, and no-one really believes that you have to stick to one cause your whole life... just that, there's something almost taboo, something very upsetting about betraying other people. How much does that matter to you, and aren't there many other ways that we hurt and mistreat people that we just ignore because 'we believe in the cause'?
The long game for me therefore is to realise, that was the cause. Learning not to hurt people just because I believed something mattered. Because I'm fucking useless, how do I know what matters? Oh right. The people mattered.
Who are they. Do they deserve our support? Are they true to us? Do we understand why we fear others? What are their motivations and ways of working with people. Did we take care of watching that in a balanced way? Or did we just go all in on allegiances over and over again, spending our free time knitting the story together privately so it looked good.
Esteban de la Sexface
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 May 2008
- Messages
- 8,727
the legacy and accomplishment in those 10 years has been wiped away with one statement on the club website.he last 10 years have been in-cre-di-ble and I will always be extremely thankful to him for that.
Those trophies mean fuck all now .
All 6 clubs should have their records wiped.
Didsbury Dave
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 Feb 2007
- Messages
- 38,064
Jesus Christ mate. You need to close your laptop and go for a walk in the sunshine.the legacy and accomplishment in those 10 years has been wiped away with one statement on the club website.
Those trophies mean fuck all now .
All 6 clubs should have their records wiped.
Those trophies mean exactly the same today as they did yesterday and will tomorrow.
Esteban de la Sexface
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 May 2008
- Messages
- 8,727
how do they? They've just been devalued by 12 clubs claiming to be more elite than that?Jesus Christ mate. You need to close your laptop and go for a walk in the sunshine.
Those trophies mean exactly the same today as they did yesterday and will tomorrow.
Should we trust them I don't really know but what does it matter if we trust them or not? If you want to see city do their best, play against the best and win trophies then you have absolutely no reason not to trust them given the last decade.Our owner's objective ultimately is to make as much money as possible from his investment.
The vast majority of the time his objective has lined up with our interests because he wants to win trophies, attract the best players/managers and play attractive football.
Sometimes what's best for him is not what's best for the club. This is the latest, and by far the most severe, of those times.
That's all.
However, if you want a club led from the bottom for the fans then you have been supporting and putting your trust in the wrong club for a while now. I don't mean this in a bad way and the club will always do right by the fans but we are always going to be secondary to anything they plan to do.
We can't moan about the football cartel whilst we are one of them.
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