'Soccer'

[Why Always Ste]

The idea of celebrating a 17th place finish and avoiding relegation is extremely foreign to US fans.

Hmm, this whole idea of "success is king" is just something I wasn't brought up on, but more the reason why I'm enjoying the current success of City - and I believe a win for the club feels more to me than it would say someone who has only started to watch us recently.
I was brought up on watching relegation battles, routing for the underdog, and this for me somewhat feels just as exciting as demolishing a team/league.

As I said though, what will eventually help is a whole generation of a Family who have played the game, from mother to father, grandfather to granddaughter.

This for me is key in the rise of the sport, and eventual mainstay (rather than just rising for say a World cup) and collapsing when ROI jump back on the boat.

The more Americans that "get" the actual patience of the sport, as to the constant point scoring of basketball, the more probable of success.

 

[Cakers]

Hmm, this whole idea of "success is king" is just something I wasn't brought up on, but more the reason why I'm enjoying the current success of City - and I believe a win for the club feels more to me than it would say someone who has only started to watch us recently.

Yeah I agree. Here in the US, winning is why the Yankees, Lakers, Miami Heat (recently with LeBron James), Red Sox, and Patriots are so popular. The Cowboys and Steelers are hugely popular b/c of their dynasty's 70's created life-long fans, plus the Cowboys won 3 Super Bowls in the 90's, too.

 

[Frank the Yank]

I have always found the american "socialisation" of sport to be odd. For a country so enamoured with the free market, they employ a salary cap in football and equalise the playing field through the draft in american football. I dont know if this happens in other US sports.

The reason why the Prem is so loved is because it has a lot of the best players, it attracts so much talent through the wages it pays. For the MSL to compete it would have to pay those wages and then it may grow huge.

And i really dont get why anyone anywhere could watch basketball, it is the singular most pointless boring sport in existence.

you would think that Rascal but you have to go a couple of layers beneath the surface. The NFL owners MANY years ago decided that its product would be much better if there were "competitive balance". How correct they were. YEARS ago when the NFL still wasnt # 1 it decided to sell its right collectively instead of each team doing its own deal. The New York owners, The Maras, agreed wholeheartedly although they would be able to get a lot more money than a small market like Green Bay.

The NFL has grown in leaps and bounds and those decisions have been proven correct and have ADDED to its popularity. Whats the fun of having a league where only 2 or 3 teams can win it all. You could make a good case for about half the teams in the NFL havnig a chance to win it all this season. You could also make a case for roughly 80% of the teams making the playoffs. There are only a few teams you can point to and say they will be absolute shite. Even then, sometimes they punch above its weight and have a decent season.

You have to know there is no such thing as relegation either so you ahve teams just playing uot the last few games of the season. So thats another reason to ahve many decent teams and not many dominant ones.

The salary cap is a fairl recent phenomenon. The players were against it, of course and it was designed to help the balance. Mainly, it was to protect the owners form themselves i.e. having a money bags owner who didnt care if he lost moey, he just wanted to be in The Super Bowl every year.

The "draft" has been going on for about 70 years. It helps with the competitive balance as well and it makes sense.

A lot fo you lot like to talk shit about America, its sports and the NFL but there is a whole shitload of stuff that you lot could learn-especially the higher up incompetents. The NFL basically prints ca$h and is, BY FAR, the best run league in the world.<br /><br />-- Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:09 am --<br /><br />

A few misconceptions to clear up...

Baseball barely matters outside of the Northeast Corridor and St. Louis-Chicago. You get enough fans to get the stadiums in several places near capacity when doing well but that's it. The reason baseball appears to have any popularity is due to one fact: aging sports reporters who grew up loving the game and refuse to stop talking about it. That's it. Most of the country couldn't be paid to go to a game and would rather face dental surgery than watch it on television.

Basketball is popular but only in spurts. It's personality-driven. Horrible television ratings for the most part although right now it's in a golden period.

NHL? Only someone insane or from one of the near-Canadian cities would claim it's very popular. Sure it has fans but in a country this size lots of sports can have sizable fanbases without really mattering.

American football is king as others have stated and I don't think European football will overtake it in the foreseeable future.

That said there's nothing stopping European football from becoming a major sport and the Premier League is getting better and better ratings. Globalization helps.

Baseball is still hugely popular in America. Look at MLB's attendance figures. They have been growing and it costs an arm and a leg to go to a game. The popularity on the Minor Leagues has risen the past 20 years as well.

It is true, however, the TV ratings have been steadily in decline. Thats true for most things on TV due to the proliferation of channels and overexposure. Interestingly, the most glaring exception is the NFL.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

Baseball is still hugely popular in America. Look at MLB's attendance figures. They have been growing and it costs an arm and a leg to go to a game. The popularity on the Minor Leagues has risen the past 20 years as well.

It is true, however, the TV ratings have been steadily in decline. Thats true for most things on TV due to the proliferation of channels and overexposure. Interestingly, the most glaring exception is the NFL.

I presume that would be due to the short life span of the NFL season in which there are what, 18 games? (plus play offs) per team, just once a week. With the other three sports, it's 6 times a week (baseball) and 3 / 4 basketball and hockey games per week each team.

 

[a.woollam]

you would think that Rascal but you have to go a couple of layers beneath the surface. The NFL owners MANY years ago decided that its product would be much better if there were "competitive balance". How correct they were. YEARS ago when the NFL still wasnt # 1 it decided to sell its right collectively instead of each team doing its own deal. The New York owners, The Maras, agreed wholeheartedly although they would be able to get a lot more money than a small market like Green Bay.

The NFL has grown in leaps and bounds and those decisions have been proven correct and have ADDED to its popularity. Whats the fun of having a league where only 2 or 3 teams can win it all. You could make a good case for about half the teams in the NFL havnig a chance to win it all this season. You could also make a case for roughly 80% of the teams making the playoffs. There are only a few teams you can point to and say they will be absolute shite. Even then, sometimes they punch above its weight and have a decent season.

You have to know there is no such thing as relegation either so you ahve teams just playing uot the last few games of the season. So thats another reason to ahve many decent teams and not many dominant ones.

The salary cap is a fairl recent phenomenon. The players were against it, of course and it was designed to help the balance. Mainly, it was to protect the owners form themselves i.e. having a money bags owner who didnt care if he lost moey, he just wanted to be in The Super Bowl every year.

The "draft" has been going on for about 70 years. It helps with the competitive balance as well and it makes sense.

A lot fo you lot like to talk shit about America, its sports and the NFL but there is a whole shitload of stuff that you lot could learn-especially the higher up incompetents. The NFL basically prints ca$h and is, BY FAR, the best run league in the world.

The NFL competetive system is good but wouldn't work in association football because there is no draft system equivalent and players are not limited to one professional league.

Also, it does look like a very unusual system when looking in

Why is the league split in two, and each of them split into four again?

It also seems like a closed shop, no equivalents to wimbledon or wigan etc.? There are 92 teams in the 4 top divisions and some 700+ teams enter the FA cup, so I don't think that a comparison can be made, and I don't think lessons can be learned either way.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

you would think that Rascal but you have to go a couple of layers beneath the surface. The NFL owners MANY years ago decided that its product would be much better if there were "competitive balance". How correct they were. YEARS ago when the NFL still wasnt # 1 it decided to sell its right collectively instead of each team doing its own deal. The New York owners, The Maras, agreed wholeheartedly although they would be able to get a lot more money than a small market like Green Bay.

The NFL has grown in leaps and bounds and those decisions have been proven correct and have ADDED to its popularity. Whats the fun of having a league where only 2 or 3 teams can win it all. You could make a good case for about half the teams in the NFL havnig a chance to win it all this season. You could also make a case for roughly 80% of the teams making the playoffs. There are only a few teams you can point to and say they will be absolute shite. Even then, sometimes they punch above its weight and have a decent season.

You have to know there is no such thing as relegation either so you ahve teams just playing uot the last few games of the season. So thats another reason to ahve many decent teams and not many dominant ones.

The salary cap is a fairl recent phenomenon. The players were against it, of course and it was designed to help the balance. Mainly, it was to protect the owners form themselves i.e. having a money bags owner who didnt care if he lost moey, he just wanted to be in The Super Bowl every year.

The "draft" has been going on for about 70 years. It helps with the competitive balance as well and it makes sense.

A lot fo you lot like to talk shit about America, its sports and the NFL but there is a whole shitload of stuff that you lot could learn-especially the higher up incompetents. The NFL basically prints ca$h and is, BY FAR, the best run league in the world.

The NFL competetive system is good but wouldn't work in association football because there is no draft system equivalent and players are not limited to one professional league.

Also, it does look like a very unusual system when looking in

Why is the league split in two, and each of them split into four again?

It also seems like a closed shop, no equivalents to wimbledon or wigan etc.? There are 92 teams in the 4 top divisions and some 700+ teams enter the FA cup, so I don't think that a comparison can be made, and I don't think lessons can be learned either way.

The leagues are simply geographically based. East coast / west coast (which ever is nearest) and then north / south of each coast.

I was scanning down the New England Revolution fixture list, to see when Beckham / LA Galaxy were visiting - and they are not playing the Revs this season in Boston to ''cut down on travelling''! Yet they play the New York Red Bulls twice at home and once in New York!
The Revs are playing Montreal twice away too.

So each team will play the same amount of games, they just wont play each team equally!

 

[a.woollam]

The leagues are simply geographically based. East coast / west coast (which ever is nearest) and then north / south of each coast.

I was scanning down the New England Revolution fixture list, to see when Beckham / LA Galaxy were visiting - and they are not playing the Revs this season in Boston! Yet New York Red Bulls are playing at Foxboro Stadium twice (plus once in New York!!)
So each team will play the same amount of games, they just wont play each team equally!

Its the AFC/NFC which I dont get

I'm bias, but a league where everyone plays everyone seems the ultimate challenge whereas one-off games, ala Super Bowl, can produce a shock result

 

[taconinja]

The leagues are simply geographically based. East coast / west coast (which ever is nearest) and then north / south of each coast.

I was scanning down the New England Revolution fixture list, to see when Beckham / LA Galaxy were visiting - and they are not playing the Revs this season in Boston! Yet New York Red Bulls are playing at Foxboro Stadium twice (plus once in New York!!)
So each team will play the same amount of games, they just wont play each team equally!

Its the AFC/NFC which I dont get

I'm bias, but a league where everyone plays everyone seems the ultimate challenge whereas one-off games, ala Super Bowl, can produce a shock result

Well it used to be the NFL only and then an upstart group of owners decided to create their own league as they felt the system was too closed leading to the creation of the AFL. After a few years of rather fierce competition for players and such, they decided to play a super-championship between them, i.e. the Super Bowl. Remember this was still two leagues. It was sort of the equivalent of the Premier League and La Liga playing a championship match. After about three years of that the two leagues decided to merge and consolidate. The NFL brand stayed, but the NFL teams became the Nation Football Conference and the AFL became the American Football Conference.

And you tend to play almost everyone anyway after three years.

 

[andrewmswift]

Few things.

Baseball is still immensely popular; it's flatly not true that it only matters in the northeast.

No one on here has mentioned baseball's minor leagues (which are affiliated with major league franchises). In a way they are quite similar to non-elite teams in football/soccer in that obviously they don't have big stars, but they have prospects coming through which helps drum up interest.

The attitude that soccer is a "pussy sport" or whatever is dying away pretty rapidly I'd say. Sure there are plenty of ignorant people in this country, but soccer is the most-played sport in this country, which most people don't know.

And American football isn't universally popular — lots of people, myself included, find it ridiculously boring (10 minutes of play time in an entire game, broken up by constant commercials).

About the MLS, teams do have pretty strong local fanbases, especially those who have newer stadiums. D.C. U*****, my local team, plays in a shithole of a stadium, which depresses attendance. And there are very passionate fanbases — the NW teams, Kansas City, Houston, DC, etc. As a league it is structured so differently than football's (soccer) model, partly because of the universality of college sports.

If you want to take a listen I had the privilege of doing NPR before the last World Cup and I touched on a few things about the growth of football in the United States.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127514062" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =127514062</a>

 

[Frank the Yank]

you would think that Rascal but you have to go a couple of layers beneath the surface. The NFL owners MANY years ago decided that its product would be much better if there were "competitive balance". How correct they were. YEARS ago when the NFL still wasnt # 1 it decided to sell its right collectively instead of each team doing its own deal. The New York owners, The Maras, agreed wholeheartedly although they would be able to get a lot more money than a small market like Green Bay.

The NFL has grown in leaps and bounds and those decisions have been proven correct and have ADDED to its popularity. Whats the fun of having a league where only 2 or 3 teams can win it all. You could make a good case for about half the teams in the NFL havnig a chance to win it all this season. You could also make a case for roughly 80% of the teams making the playoffs. There are only a few teams you can point to and say they will be absolute shite. Even then, sometimes they punch above its weight and have a decent season.

You have to know there is no such thing as relegation either so you ahve teams just playing uot the last few games of the season. So thats another reason to ahve many decent teams and not many dominant ones.

The salary cap is a fairl recent phenomenon. The players were against it, of course and it was designed to help the balance. Mainly, it was to protect the owners form themselves i.e. having a money bags owner who didnt care if he lost moey, he just wanted to be in The Super Bowl every year.

The "draft" has been going on for about 70 years. It helps with the competitive balance as well and it makes sense.

A lot fo you lot like to talk shit about America, its sports and the NFL but there is a whole shitload of stuff that you lot could learn-especially the higher up incompetents. The NFL basically prints ca$h and is, BY FAR, the best run league in the world.

The NFL competetive system is good but wouldn't work in association football because there is no draft system equivalent and players are not limited to one professional league.

Also, it does look like a very unusual system when looking in

Why is the league split in two, and each of them split into four again?

It also seems like a closed shop, no equivalents to wimbledon or wigan etc.? There are 92 teams in the 4 top divisions and some 700+ teams enter the FA cup, so I don't think that a comparison can be made, and I don't think lessons can be learned either way.

You have hit on a good point i.e the NFL is, effectively, a "closed shop". The league doesnt have ANY competition. Its really the ONLY place for players to earn money and lots of it. Thats what helps make the model so successful.

The NFL had about 12 teams until the early 60's when a bunch of guys with money were shut out of the business so they decided to form another leauge. That was the AFL. It took about 5 years before the NFL decided to actually play the champion of the AFL in the first Super Bowl. Everyone thought the NFL were so much better. Some people thought the AFL was a joke.

The NFL won the first two Super Bowl easily because the Green bay Packers were such a good team. It all changed in Super Bowl III when New York Jets shocked the Baltimore Colts 16-7. The jets were like a 15-1 underdog to win. It was a huge shock. A couple of years later, the leagues merged. They havent looked back since and have grown almost every single year.

There has been a little movement between teams going from the NFL to AFL now NFC to AFC but not much. The teams are split up into divisions based on historical rivalry. Its, essentially, a mini league hence more interest.<br /><br />-- Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:53 pm --<br /><br />

Few things.

Baseball is still immensely popular; it's flatly not true that it only matters in the northeast.

No one on here has mentioned baseball's minor leagues (which are affiliated with major league franchises). In a way they are quite similar to non-elite teams in football/soccer in that obviously they don't have big stars, but they have prospects coming through which helps drum up interest.

The attitude that soccer is a "pussy sport" or whatever is dying away pretty rapidly I'd say. Sure there are plenty of ignorant people in this country, but soccer is the most-played sport in this country, which most people don't know.

And American football isn't universally popular — lots of people, myself included, find it ridiculously boring (10 minutes of play time in an entire game, broken up by constant commercials).

About the MLS, teams do have pretty strong local fanbases, especially those who have newer stadiums. D.C. U*****, my local team, plays in a shithole of a stadium, which depresses attendance. And there are very passionate fanbases — the NW teams, Kansas City, Houston, DC, etc. As a league it is structured so differently than football's (soccer) model, partly because of the universality of college sports.

If you want to take a listen I had the privilege of doing NPR before the last World Cup and I touched on a few things about the growth of football in the United States.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127514062" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =127514062</a>

I have mentioned the mior leagues!!! These teams popularity have grown in leaps and bounds because of the horrible expense of Major League games. Its a great alternative for families especially. You can get GREAT seats for minor league games for a FRACTION of the price and these games are FUN. Its entertainment after all and its GREAT value for money......