Some of you won't like this, but..

[twinkletoes]

Just one question: May 2009 - Are Everton a bigger club than Manchester City?

[quote/]

Everton

League Champions
9 Times

League Runners-Up
7 Times

FA Cup Winners
5 Times... 6 after Saturday ;)

FA Cup Finalists
8 Times

European Cup Winners Cup Winners
1 Time

League placings over last 5 years - 5th, 5th, 6th, 11th, 4th

Average attendance this season - 35,667


Man City

League Champions
2 Times

League Runners-Up
3 Times

FA Cup Winners
4 Times

FA Cup Finalists
8 Times

League Cup Winners
2 Times

European Cup Winners Cup Winners
1 Time

League placings over last 5 years - 10th, 9th, 14th, 15th, 8th

Average attendance this season - 42,900


As of May 2009 are Everton a bigger club the Man City?

Based on the above i'd say yes.

Not ten years ago not fifty years ago...NOW. Are Everton a bigger club than Man City right NOW?

 

[bobmcfc]

This is stronger than just idle gossip, I am sort of ITK (will NOT reveal link as it's via a 3rd party), and as such whilst not privvy (who is?) to hard information about specific plans, have formed my own ideas on the type of squad Hughes and co. would like to put together, based on how last season was viewed

Outs:

Vassell - Free
Hamaann - Free
Mills - Released
Berti - Released

Robinho £30m - Chelsea
Jo swap + £2m - Everton (Lescott the other way)
Elano £5m
Petrov 2.5m - Spurs
Ben Haim £2m - Sunderland
Dunne £3m - Sunderland
Garrido £2m Spain
Fernandes £2m Stoke
Benjani Free -
Evans Loan - Newcastle
Ball - £1m - newly promoted club
Sturridge £2m (compensation) - Aston Villa
Caceido loan - Blackburn

Ins:

Lescott see above
K. Toure £8m
YY Toure £19m
G Johnson £15m
Capel £25m
Ageuro £35m
Adebayour (spelling)£18m
Tevez £30m
Bentley £8m
G. O'Neil £6m

This is what I think the the wish list could be, the original intention was to bring in more numbers but non Europa qualification means concentrating on quality to push for top 4, I know we have publicly stated top 6 but feel the real agenda is different.
Also the new arrivals, could be viewed as having more "backbone" and a better work ethic than the departing Brazillians - the feeling being that these boys have too many "don't fancy it" days, were disruptive influences at times, and didn't enjoy the tough training regime, resulting in shocking form last season away from Eastlands

Looks strong to me. I'd go with this

so we get rid of all those players (near enough our entire squad) and replace them with 10 players 3 of which are strikers ? what if we get injuries ? will everyone be moaning we have no strength in depth and be asking why we got rid of perfectly good squad players like dunne, elano, petrov, garrido and caicedo

 

[ToffeeAndy]

Just one question: May 2009 - Are Everton a bigger club than Manchester City?

[quote/]

Everton

League Champions
9 Times

League Runners-Up
7 Times

FA Cup Winners
5 Times... 6 after Saturday ;)

FA Cup Finalists
8 Times

European Cup Winners Cup Winners
1 Time

League placings over last 5 years - 5th, 5th, 6th, 11th, 4th

Average attendance this season - 35,667


Man City

League Champions
2 Times

League Runners-Up
3 Times

FA Cup Winners
4 Times

FA Cup Finalists
8 Times

League Cup Winners
2 Times

European Cup Winners Cup Winners
1 Time

League placings over last 5 years - 10th, 9th, 14th, 15th, 8th

Average attendance this season - 42,900


As of May 2009 are Everton a bigger club the Man City?

Based on the above i'd say yes.

Not ten years ago not fifty years ago...NOW. Are Everton a bigger club than Man City right NOW?

I'm confused by your definition of a "big club".

My understanding of a "big club" would be...

1) A club steeped in history
2) A club that has sustained a prolongued period of "success" in their history
3) Have a large fanbase and passionate support
4) A club who is competing for trophies in the present day and age (we are in the FA cup final and last season got to the league cup semi final
5) A club who are competing at the right end of the table year in year out (4th, 6th, 5th, 5th)

I've put what I believe to be the correct order of importance in defining a big club.

You keep disagreeing with me but not really giving me much insight in to your thoughts. Please can you state your defenition of a big club?

Also if Everton & City both went in for the same player, both offered the same wages... which club would the player join? I believe Everton because were FA Cup finalists, can offer European football and are highly regarded due to our consistant finishes in the top 6 and stability in the club.

Thats my opinion... it may be right, it may be wrong, but if you disagree then please state your arguments with some deeper foundations then just saying i'm wrong.

Cheers

 

[twinkletoes]

Just one question: May 2009 - Are Everton a bigger club than Manchester City?

[quote/]

Everton

League Champions
9 Times

League Runners-Up
7 Times

FA Cup Winners
5 Times... 6 after Saturday ;)

FA Cup Finalists
8 Times

European Cup Winners Cup Winners
1 Time

League placings over last 5 years - 5th, 5th, 6th, 11th, 4th

Average attendance this season - 35,667


Man City

League Champions
2 Times

League Runners-Up
3 Times

FA Cup Winners
4 Times

FA Cup Finalists
8 Times

League Cup Winners
2 Times

European Cup Winners Cup Winners
1 Time

League placings over last 5 years - 10th, 9th, 14th, 15th, 8th

Average attendance this season - 42,900


As of May 2009 are Everton a bigger club the Man City?

Based on the above i'd say yes.

Not ten years ago not fifty years ago...NOW. Are Everton a bigger club than Man City right NOW?

I'm confused by your definition of a "big club".

My understanding of a "big club" would be...

1) A club steeped in history
2) A club that has sustained a prolongued period of "success" in their history
3) Have a large fanbase and passionate support
4) A club who is competing for trophies in the present day and age (we are in the FA cup final and last season got to the league cup semi final
5) A club who are competing at the right end of the table year in year out (4th, 6th, 5th, 5th)

I've put what I believe to be the correct order of importance in defining a big club.

You keep disagreeing with me but not really giving me much insight in to your thoughts. Please can you state your defenition of a big club?

Also if Everton & City both went in for the same player, both offered the same wages... which club would the player join? I believe Everton because were FA Cup finalists, can offer European football and are highly regarded due to our consistant finishes in the top 6 and stability in the club.

Thats my opinion... it may be right, it may be wrong, but if you disagree then please state your arguments with some deeper foundations then just saying i'm wrong.

Cheers

You are living in the past.

Our turnover is greater than yours.

We attract more fans to our games.

You haven't got the proverbial pot to piss in.

Your stadium is a living museum.

We are linked to players like Kaka. Your team are linked to players like Alan Smith.

We will probably spend in excess of £200m to improve our squad this season. Everton will probably spend £2m.

In the next two years they will be talking about the big five and Everton won't be in it.

Everton have reached their limits as far as potential whereas City have just started on their road to gaining entry to the elite of Europe.

 

[lionheart]

Everton may have been the bigger club during the last decade but City will undoubtedly be the bigger club during the next decade. You choose which you would prefer to support...and good luck in the Cup Final, as it may be your last chance to win a trophy for some considerable time.

 

[mancitytmd]

This is stronger than just idle gossip, I am sort of ITK (will NOT reveal link as it's via a 3rd party), and as such whilst not privvy (who is?) to hard information about specific plans, have formed my own ideas on the type of squad Hughes and co. would like to put together, based on how last season was viewed

Outs:

Vassell - Free
Hamaann - Free
Mills - Released
Berti - Released

Robinho £30m - Chelsea
Jo swap + £2m - Everton (Lescott the other way)

HA massively deluded! So much so that its almost funny!

Jo is probably worth about £7-8m in the current climate. It doesnt matter that you paid stupid money for him he's not worth anymore then £8m. That means your rating Lescott at £10m right? You think Everton would let one of their star players leave for £10m?

Jagielka and Lescott are the 2nd best defensive pairing in the country behind Ferdinand and Vidic... why would we split that up for £2m and an average striker?

Also remember Jo doesn't want to come back to you... harldy high praise fro Lescott to consider a switch is it?

I think City fans need to be careful as now Newcastle have been relegated your a sure fire certainty to be branded "most deluded fans" if you keep up with this kind of talk!

Jo is worth £7-8m but little Everton can't afford him.

You are deluded if you think Jagielka and Lescott are second best defensive duo.

Concentrate on winning the only trophy you can aspire to winning.

No your right we couldn't afford £7-£8m for a squad player. I'd rather we spent our money wisely on players such as Arteta (£2.5m), Cahill (£1.5m), Pienaar (£2m), Jagielka (£4m) who are fantastic players and would walk into most teams (including Man City), rather then waste large amounts of money on flops... ala... now wait for it... yep you guessed it... Man City ;)

I'll hold my hands up to the trophy thing though. We do need to concentrate a trophy we can aspire to winning... the FA Cup. We can apsire to win it because were in the final... how many finals have City been in this year? Do you count spending millions upon millions and finishing mid table as winning something? Oh well if you do congratulations and i'll wish you luck for next season and the season after that too as you'll no doubt win this award again.

Just out of interest how are we "little everton"? Based on fairly recent history there's not much between us... based on the last 5 seasons we've finished 5th twice, 6th once, and 4th once. where have "big city" (i'm presuming you think City are big by the fact you called everton "small") finished?

Oh sorry your big cause you have lots of money? yeah hows that worked out so far... apart from you becoming a laughing stock with your stupid bids for unrealistic targets?

And finally can you please name a better CB partnership then Lescott and Jagielka please?

Thanks

You're forgetting something gobshite

for all you're finished 5th, 6th whatever - you have not improved

And yes we only finished 10th - We still have not had a full season wirth a settled squad or the money yet - If we're still finishing 10th in say 2/3 seasons then you can say we have failed

 

[ToffeeAndy]

You are living in the past.

Our turnover is greater than yours.

We attract more fans to our games.

You haven't got the proverbial pot to piss in.

Your stadium is a living museum.

We are linked to players like Kaka. Your team are linked to players like Alan Smith.

We will probably spend in excess of £200m to improve our squad this season. Everton will probably spend £2m.

In the next two years they will be talking about the big five and Everton won't be in it.

Everton have reached their limits as far as potential whereas City have just started on their road to gaining entry to the elite of Europe.

Ok lets go through this one point at a time:

1) History counts for a lot in football my friend. Hence the likes of say Crewe, Leicester etc will never be a big club. You see its about prestige and reputation and that counts for a lot.
Also I think you'll find i've actually also put forward a very good argument about the present day stature of both clubs also. You'll see i've listed our league positions compared to yours and also our progress in the domestic cup competitions. So you argument i'm living in the past falls down here. I'd argue your actually living in the future which could explain why you think the present is in fact the past if you see what I mean. Your argument is that maybe in 2 years times City will have surpassed us and won some silverware... maybe so but your question about who's a bigger club in 2009 would suggest Everton based on your arguments... or am I missing something here?

2) Yes you attract more fans to your games... your stadium has a larger capacity. Sunderland attract more fans the Everton... does that make them a bigger club? Newcastle United attracted more fans then City... does that make them a bigger club then city? Going by your logic then yes it must do.

3) We haven't got a lot of money no... does that mean anything? Spurs continually spend more then us every season, so do Newcastle United... yet we finish above them every year. Its not how much money you have, its how you use it that counts. Wealth doesn't equate to stature in a football club. QPR have a lot of money now... are they a bigger club then Everton? Again i'll use Sunderland as an example... they spent something like £40m under Keane... are they a bigger club then Everton?

4) Yeah our stadium is old and either needs replacing or redeveloping. Again I dont see what thats got to do with the a club being a "big club" or not. Arsenal only recently got a new ground... were they a small club until then?

5) Your linked with players like Kaka... you wont get him tho. In fact the whole Kaka situation made you the laughing stock of football. I'd be more concerned with being linked with realistic targets if I was you. Also being linked means nothing its just paper talk and is 99% of the time incorrect. Moyes will buy well just like he always has.

6) You might spend £200m but what kind of team will you have? A load of merceneries on huge contracts who dont care about the club? I'd rather spend £10m a year and build solid foundations that will gradually help us improve (as we have done over the last 7 years). Even if Moyes only has £2m (where are you getting this figure from?) that money would be used to sign another Piennar, Arteta or Cahill.

7) Yeah the big 5... Now this is where i'm going to give City some praise. You have the potential to buy a very good team. You have the potential (fan base, finances, stadium) to have a decent crack at breaking the top 4's monopoly if you build solid foundations and keep stability in the club (I.e. Hughes who I think is a very good manager). This wont happen in 2 years though... your crazy if you think it will! 5 years minimum, 2 years and your having a laugh!

8) Its strange that evey year everyone says Everton have reached their limits and yet every year we finish above teams like Newcastle, Villa, Spurs, City etc etc. Your also forgetting that as a club we are up for sale (if you believe our chairman which a lot of fans dont). If some uber rich sugar daddy takes over in the next few years then our team is in a very healthy state to add one or 2 players of exceptional quality who would help us break the top 4. We have probably the best manager in the league (LMA awarded him this 3 times now... no other manager has ever achieved this) who will continue to work his magic and keep us in the top 6. Yes in the future City may or may not overtake us purely on a financial basis... however this isnt a guarantee... look at Spurs and Newcastle for confirmation of this.

I guess to sum it up I feel your arguments are all based on what could potentially happen in the future... not based on the current day.

 

[ToffeeAndy]

Everton may have been the bigger club during the last decade but City will undoubtedly be the bigger club during the next decade. You choose which you would prefer to support...and good luck in the Cup Final, as it may be your last chance to win a trophy for some considerable time.

Quite possible. In fact i'd say 10 years seems like a feasible time frame for city to surpase us if we dont find a new owner. I dont have a problem with your argument here.

Not sure about the 2nd slightly bitchy comment tho... care to explain why this will be our last chance for some considerable time?

 

[Evertonian3]

So winning trophies in the past makes you a big club. So Wolves are a bigger club than Newcastle, get real!

You are deluded if you think that next year Everton will improve on their league place. Always the bridesmaid never the bride.

Pls name one signing that Mark Hughes has signed that is a dud. Oh yes it's Jo, funny that!

So you agree your stadium is a museum?

Yes winning trophies over a sustained period of time makes you a big club. Neither Newcastle or Wolves are big teams so your point makes little sense.

I doubt we'll improve our league position... however the team most likely to challenge the top 4 is Everton. I accept its unlikely we'll actually finish in the top 4. The last 2 seasons we've finished 5th so I dont think its deluded to state were most likely to challenge for the top 4 when the last 2 seasons we've been that team.

I like Hughes and think given time and not being forced to buy superstars he doesn't even want he'll build a good team. Buying the likes of Robinho for stupid money on stupid wages is not going to build you a "team" capable of anything. Jo flopped at City and did well at Everton... not funny really its just he's now in a team with a great atmosphere not a one full of mercenaries.

Just one question: May 2009 - Are Everton a bigger club than Manchester City?

In a word, yes.

 

[ToffeeAndy]

You're forgetting something gobshite

for all you're finished 5th, 6th whatever - you have not improved

And yes we only finished 10th - We still have not had a full season wirth a settled squad or the money yet - If we're still finishing 10th in say 2/3 seasons then you can say we have failed

Gobshite? Nice mature opening to your point there.

I never said you'd failed... your not paying attention obviously.