Evertonian3
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- Joined
- 28 Apr 2009
- Messages
- 68
twinkletoes said:
YES!
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Some of you won't like this, but..
- Thread starter plongo
- Start date
YES!
Phatex
Well-Known Member
ToffeeAndy said:TonyM said:I would expect to have to pay somewhere between 20 and 25m. I'd say given that'll be practically impossible for us to get a bargain paying over the odds (by far) is unavoidable and all that matters is the quality of the player. He's worth it IMO.
TA would 20-25m do it?
(I think once we get a proper top 4 challenging team we'll be able to haggle from a stronger position which should bring don our average outlay. So I don't think the model of paying crazy sums now is all that bad.)
Hi Tony, yeah i'd say that would probably force our hand to be honest. We have Jagielka and Yobo so were not too bad off in that area and although Lescott is an excellent player the prices you quoted there would be too hard to resist. It would give us enough money to bring in a new centre back as cover for Jags and Yobo and also funds to sign a right winger of real quality.
Selling him for any less then that wouldn't be worthwhile as the cost of bringing in a new defender (say £5m) would mean there wouldn't be enough left over to strenghten the team in another area.
I think paying crazy prices is fine as long as your signing good players who will work as a team. I personally think it would make more sense to sign someone like Lescott who has been a success in the premier league then chasing a foreign big name defender. I was impressed when Hughes bought Given... thats the type of signing you need. Build a good team and then add the likes of Robinho to it, rather then the other way round.
I still dont want you to get lescott tho ;)
Andy you are the type of fan I really dislike, when you make the effort to join a Manchester City forum to have a stab of us.
Judging on your past success, trophies, finals etc. I am not denying that Everton are a "bigger" club.
Let's get something straight, money talks now days, and as much as you can slag us off for having "heartless" "money obsessed" fans etc. This is where it ends..
Money talks, Everton have none, I will agree with you that many people on this site are very deluded, the minimum that I would pay for Lescott is 10m, that is my personal opinion.
Yes you have had more success in the past then us, so what? are we going back to the past?
Look to the future, look where your club is going? a very stable consistent team pushing for 4th place.
Once again money talks, it is what you lack to compete, Yes we under preform a lot, I personally think that you punch above your weight.
City have an outstanding youth system even though Hughes is not the greatest for acknowledging them, we quite clearly have an endless supply of money as well as a very talented squad even though we may under preform which is why we sit mid table, look forward to the transfer window, We will be doing a lot this summer, shipping out a lot of deadwood.
Everton will not be competing in the transfer window, maybe if a club buys a star player you may have a bit of money to spend, you have a small squad, can you afford to ship the fringe players out?
City are going places, with our youth system, money and the exciting the possibility of knocking a top 4 club off it's perch.
I think you should wakeup and smell the coffee.
The future is blue, Sky blue.
ToffeeAndy said:You are living in the past.
Our turnover is greater than yours.
We attract more fans to our games.
You haven't got the proverbial pot to piss in.
Your stadium is a living museum.
We are linked to players like Kaka. Your team are linked to players like Alan Smith.
We will probably spend in excess of £200m to improve our squad this season. Everton will probably spend £2m.
In the next two years they will be talking about the big five and Everton won't be in it.
Everton have reached their limits as far as potential whereas City have just started on their road to gaining entry to the elite of Europe.
Ok lets go through this one point at a time:
1) History counts for a lot in football my friend. Hence the likes of say Crewe, Leicester etc will never be a big club. You see its about prestige and reputation and that counts for a lot.
Also I think you'll find i've actually also put forward a very good argument about the present day stature of both clubs also. You'll see i've listed our league positions compared to yours and also our progress in the domestic cup competitions. So you argument i'm living in the past falls down here. I'd argue your actually living in the future which could explain why you think the present is in fact the past if you see what I mean. Your argument is that maybe in 2 years times City will have surpassed us and won some silverware... maybe so but your question about who's a bigger club in 2009 would suggest Everton based on your arguments... or am I missing something here?
2) Yes you attract more fans to your games... your stadium has a larger capacity. Sunderland attract more fans the Everton... does that make them a bigger club? Newcastle United attracted more fans then City... does that make them a bigger club then city? Going by your logic then yes it must do.
3) We haven't got a lot of money no... does that mean anything? Spurs continually spend more then us every season, so do Newcastle United... yet we finish above them every year. Its not how much money you have, its how you use it that counts. Wealth doesn't equate to stature in a football club. QPR have a lot of money now... are they a bigger club then Everton? Again i'll use Sunderland as an example... they spent something like £40m under Keane... are they a bigger club then Everton?
4) Yeah our stadium is old and either needs replacing or redeveloping. Again I dont see what thats got to do with the a club being a "big club" or not. Arsenal only recently got a new ground... were they a small club until then?
5) Your linked with players like Kaka... you wont get him tho. In fact the whole Kaka situation made you the laughing stock of football. I'd be more concerned with being linked with realistic targets if I was you. Also being linked means nothing its just paper talk and is 99% of the time incorrect. Moyes will buy well just like he always has.
6) You might spend £200m but what kind of team will you have? A load of merceneries on huge contracts who dont care about the club? I'd rather spend £10m a year and build solid foundations that will gradually help us improve (as we have done over the last 7 years). Even if Moyes only has £2m (where are you getting this figure from?) that money would be used to sign another Piennar, Arteta or Cahill.
7) Yeah the big 5... Now this is where i'm going to give City some praise. You have the potential to buy a very good team. You have the potential (fan base, finances, stadium) to have a decent crack at breaking the top 4's monopoly if you build solid foundations and keep stability in the club (I.e. Hughes who I think is a very good manager). This wont happen in 2 years though... your crazy if you think it will! 5 years minimum, 2 years and your having a laugh!
8) Its strange that evey year everyone says Everton have reached their limits and yet every year we finish above teams like Newcastle, Villa, Spurs, City etc etc. Your also forgetting that as a club we are up for sale (if you believe our chairman which a lot of fans dont). If some uber rich sugar daddy takes over in the next few years then our team is in a very healthy state to add one or 2 players of exceptional quality who would help us break the top 4. We have probably the best manager in the league (LMA awarded him this 3 times now... no other manager has ever achieved this) who will continue to work his magic and keep us in the top 6. Yes in the future City may or may not overtake us purely on a financial basis... however this isnt a guarantee... look at Spurs and Newcastle for confirmation of this.
I guess to sum it up I feel your arguments are all based on what could potentially happen in the future... not based on the current day.
Blimey you are obsessed with this site... You keep saying you always finish above Spurs and Newcastle. Didn't spuds finish 5th a couple of seasons ago or do we not count that ? and point 6... nonsense mate. you and all everton fans know you would love to be in a position to bid for players worth £30/40 million.
Don't really care if Everton is a "bigger" club than City, or City is a "bigger" club than Everton. It's just my club, and it's no better or worse either way.
If you ask me if a player would be more likely to sign for Everton or City given the choice between the two I think they would have some successes and we'd have some successes. I suspect we're shopping in different markets though and I don't think the situation would come up too much.
If you ask me if a player in 5 years time would be more likely to sign for Everton or City given the choice, I guess only time will tell on that. But I'd be happier being in our shoes than theirs.
If you ask me if a player would be more likely to sign for Everton or City given the choice between the two I think they would have some successes and we'd have some successes. I suspect we're shopping in different markets though and I don't think the situation would come up too much.
If you ask me if a player in 5 years time would be more likely to sign for Everton or City given the choice, I guess only time will tell on that. But I'd be happier being in our shoes than theirs.
twinkletoes
Well-Known Member
ToffeeAndy said:You are living in the past.
Our turnover is greater than yours.
We attract more fans to our games.
You haven't got the proverbial pot to piss in.
Your stadium is a living museum.
We are linked to players like Kaka. Your team are linked to players like Alan Smith.
We will probably spend in excess of £200m to improve our squad this season. Everton will probably spend £2m.
In the next two years they will be talking about the big five and Everton won't be in it.
Everton have reached their limits as far as potential whereas City have just started on their road to gaining entry to the elite of Europe.
Ok lets go through this one point at a time:
1) History counts for a lot in football my friend. Hence the likes of say Crewe, Leicester etc will never be a big club. You see its about prestige and reputation and that counts for a lot.
Also I think you'll find i've actually also put forward a very good argument about the present day stature of both clubs also. You'll see i've listed our league positions compared to yours and also our progress in the domestic cup competitions. So you argument i'm living in the past falls down here. I'd argue your actually living in the future which could explain why you think the present is in fact the past if you see what I mean. Your argument is that maybe in 2 years times City will have surpassed us and won some silverware... maybe so but your question about who's a bigger club in 2009 would suggest Everton based on your arguments... or am I missing something here?
2) Yes you attract more fans to your games... your stadium has a larger capacity. Sunderland attract more fans the Everton... does that make them a bigger club? Newcastle United attracted more fans then City... does that make them a bigger club then city? Going by your logic then yes it must do.
3) We haven't got a lot of money no... does that mean anything? Spurs continually spend more then us every season, so do Newcastle United... yet we finish above them every year. Its not how much money you have, its how you use it that counts. Wealth doesn't equate to stature in a football club. QPR have a lot of money now... are they a bigger club then Everton? Again i'll use Sunderland as an example... they spent something like £40m under Keane... are they a bigger club then Everton?
4) Yeah our stadium is old and either needs replacing or redeveloping. Again I dont see what thats got to do with the a club being a "big club" or not. Arsenal only recently got a new ground... were they a small club until then?
5) Your linked with players like Kaka... you wont get him tho. In fact the whole Kaka situation made you the laughing stock of football. I'd be more concerned with being linked with realistic targets if I was you. Also being linked means nothing its just paper talk and is 99% of the time incorrect. Moyes will buy well just like he always has.
6) You might spend £200m but what kind of team will you have? A load of merceneries on huge contracts who dont care about the club? I'd rather spend £10m a year and build solid foundations that will gradually help us improve (as we have done over the last 7 years). Even if Moyes only has £2m (where are you getting this figure from?) that money would be used to sign another Piennar, Arteta or Cahill.
7) Yeah the big 5... Now this is where i'm going to give City some praise. You have the potential to buy a very good team. You have the potential (fan base, finances, stadium) to have a decent crack at breaking the top 4's monopoly if you build solid foundations and keep stability in the club (I.e. Hughes who I think is a very good manager). This wont happen in 2 years though... your crazy if you think it will! 5 years minimum, 2 years and your having a laugh!
8) Its strange that evey year everyone says Everton have reached their limits and yet every year we finish above teams like Newcastle, Villa, Spurs, City etc etc. Your also forgetting that as a club we are up for sale (if you believe our chairman which a lot of fans dont). If some uber rich sugar daddy takes over in the next few years then our team is in a very healthy state to add one or 2 players of exceptional quality who would help us break the top 4. We have probably the best manager in the league (LMA awarded him this 3 times now... no other manager has ever achieved this) who will continue to work his magic and keep us in the top 6. Yes in the future City may or may not overtake us purely on a financial basis... however this isnt a guarantee... look at Spurs and Newcastle for confirmation of this.
I guess to sum it up I feel your arguments are all based on what could potentially happen in the future... not based on the current day.
Spurs, Newcastle and Sunderland are bigger clubs than Everton
It's pointless arguing anymore about the comparisons. Although I suggest you continue with the meds.
Can you say whether Liverpool are a bigger club than Everton?
ToffeeAndy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 27 May 2009
- Messages
- 223
Andy you are the type of fan I really dislike, when you make the effort to join a Manchester City forum to have a stab of us.
Judging on your past success, trophies, finals etc. I am not denying that Everton are a "bigger" club.
Let's get something straight, money talks now days, and as much as you can slag us off for having "heartless" "money obsessed" fans etc. This is where it ends..
Money talks, Everton have none, I will agree with you that many people on this site are very deluded, the minimum that I would pay for Lescott is 10m, that is my personal opinion.
Yes you have had more success in the past then us, so what? are we going back to the past?
Look to the future, look where your club is going? a very stable consistent team pushing for 4th place.
Once again money talks, it is what you lack to compete, Yes we under preform a lot, I personally think that you punch above your weight.
City have an outstanding youth system even though Hughes is not the greatest for acknowledging them, we quite clearly have an endless supply of money as well as a very talented squad even though we may under preform which is why we sit mid table, look forward to the transfer window, We will be doing a lot this summer, shipping out a lot of deadwood.
Everton will not be competing in the transfer window, maybe if a club buys a star player you may have a bit of money to spend, you have a small squad, can you afford to ship the fringe players out?
City are going places, with our youth system, money and the exciting the possibility of knocking a top 4 club off it's perch.
I think you should wakeup and smell the coffee.
The future is blue, Sky blue.
I actually joined the forum because a lot of city fans seemed to think you'd get Lescott for £10m. The whole argument thats now gone on for something like 10 pages is because a City fan referred to my club as "little everton". My points have all related to the fact that as it stands in this present day that City are certainly no bigger then us. I'm not here to have a stab at City fans, however I feel i'm justified in defending my team against what I feel is an inaccurate view of them... this would also include the fact that one of our star players would view City as a much more desirable location to play football then Everton and that we'd fall over ourselves for a cheque of £10m cause were sooooo poor.
I dont think City fans are "money obsessed", I do however feel some people on here have a distorted view of the clubs stature in the current game based purely on the bottomless pit of money you have. i.e. that Adebayor would be a realistic target even though Milan want him, or that John Terry would leave Chelsea for City. However not everyone on here has that view so I accept its not everyone... I can't remember who it was but someone on here was saying they felt Santa Cruz was a realistic target so I'll happily accept not every City supporter thinks they'll be seeing players trading say the Nou Camp for Eastlands.
You wouldn't get Lescott for £10m. We dont need to sell so it would take double that to even get us to let him talk to City. £10m is probably a fairly accurate figure for what he's actually worth, but in todays overblown market and the fact we wouldn't want to sell him then you'd be looking at double that for us to even consider it.
We were going back to the past to understand that part of being a big club is the history of that club.
I dont feel we punch above our weight necessarly, I think thats just come from a media perspective that the team who spends the most must finish the highest. Were not punching above our weight because we've had 7 years of stability and slowly building under a great manager. We haven't finished where we have over the last few years or knocked out Boro, Liverpool, Villa and Man U on the way to this years FA Cup final by chance.
We can afford to ship one or two fringe players out, hopefully we'll have Yak and Arteta back next season who have missed most of this one, so that will more then offset losing any fringe players. Youngsters like Jack Rodwell and Dan Gosling who have been excellent for us this season will get a lot more games next season, and coupled with a few good signings we'll be competing at the right end of the table again. We wont break the top 4 though, as i've said previously in this thread it'll be almost impossible to do and certainly do consitently without major investment.
Again i've said City may go places but it'll take time and allowing Hughes to build slowly and buy the right type of players. I've never denied this on here.
I feel that i've explained all my points very clearly and accurately in my posts and its understandable that a lot of people on here will disagree, thats life, I think on the whole your more open to debate then most people so I respect your views and ability to relay them across.
ToffeeAndy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 27 May 2009
- Messages
- 223
Can you say whether Liverpool are a bigger club than Everton?
Unfortunately yes they are.
although I hate them for it ;)
twinkletoes
Well-Known Member
ToffeeAndy said:Can you say whether Liverpool are a bigger club than Everton?
Unfortunately yes they are.
although I hate them for it ;)
Finally getting somewhere.
ToffeeAndy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 27 May 2009
- Messages
- 223
Spurs, Newcastle and Sunderland are bigger clubs than Everton
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!
Good one mate! You should try stand up cause your a fucking funny guy!
twinkletoes
Well-Known Member
ToffeeAndy said:Spurs, Newcastle and Sunderland are bigger clubs than Everton
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!
Good one mate! You should try stand up cause your a fucking funny guy!
Newcastle will still probably generate more money and have bigger attendances than Everton whilst they are in the Coca Cola League.