Spurs 2018/19

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JimB said:
With respect, that is not true.

The Y word (I'm guessing that I'm not allowed to use it in full on this forum?) is actually a yiddish term of respect. Context is everything. Does Spurs fans' use of the word have positive or negative intent? Clearly the former. In legal terms, think mens rea.
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Please don't tell someone who is Jewish that the word Yid isn't anti semitic
 
Eds said:
Please don't tell someone who is Jewish that the word Yid isn't anti semitic
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But are you of Ashkenazi Jewish origin? If not, then you should educate yourself as to their language - Yiddish - before trying to tell someone who is educated as to their language (in this particular respect, at least) that the word Yid is uniquely an anti-Semitic word when, in fact, it is first and foremost an Ashkenazi Jewish term of respect.
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Spurs fans, having some Jewish in my background myself, I understand why you use the word and that it's not being used an insult (far from it). But you should be aware that Mike Summerbee, for one, is still a total legend in this club and is incidentally Club Ambassador. So it's not a word that goes down well on this forum.
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OK this may be incredibly naive of me but what's the Summerbee connection?
 
JimB said:
But are you of Ashkenazi Jewish origin? If not, then you should educate yourself as to their language - Yiddish - before trying to tell someone who is educated as to their language (in this particular respect, at least) that the word Yid is uniquely an anti-Semitic word when, in fact, it is first and foremost an Ashkenazi Jewish term of respect.
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It’s not black and white based on your post, however I thinks there’s enough empirical evidence to suggest its a word that now has race hate implications for most of the Jewish population, they don’t like it so it’s simple, don’t use it.
 
hammocity said:
It’s not black and white based on your post, however I thinks there’s enough empirical evidence to suggest its a word that now has race hate implications for most of the Jewish population, they don’t like it so it’s simple, don’t use it.
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Not entirely true. A majority of Jewish Spurs fans love that Spurs fans as a whole use it positively to mean anyone - fan; player, manager; ex player; etc - connected to the club.

On a more general philosophical level, there is no such thing as the right to not be offended. If, after context and intent have been taken into account, someone chooses to be offended regardless that no intent was meant, then that is entirely on them. No blame can be attached to the supposed, but actually innocent, offender. I refer once again to the legal principle of mens rea.
 
JimB said:
Again, not true. A majority of Jewish Spurs fans love that Spurs fans as a whole use it positively to mean anyone - fan; player, manager; ex player; etc - connected to the club.

On a more general philosophical level, there is no such thing as the right to not be offended. If, after context and intent have been taken into account, someone chooses to be offended regardless that no intent was meant, then that is entirely on them. No blame can be attached to the supposed, but actually innocent, offender. I refer once again to the legal principle of men’s rea.
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They used to sing “yid army” but don’t anymore, I think if you used the word at WHL you would be chucked out, perhaps our Spurs “friends” can confirm.

And BTW Spuds, batter (as in beat at football) those dipper fuckers, you could use our song if you want. Allez, Allez, Allez,
 
hammocity said:
They used to sing “yid army” but don’t anymore, I think if you used the word at WHL you would be chucked out, perhaps our Spurs “friends” can confirm.

And BTW Spuds, batter (as in beat at football) those dipper fuckers, you could use our song if you want. Allez, Allez, Allez,
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I am a Spurs fan and we use the word in songs multiple times in every match! No one gets thrown out. There was a very brief period a few years ago when, after lobbying by Chelsea fan David Baddiel, police arrested a few Spurs fans for using the word. But those few cases were quickly laughed out of court - precisely because of mens rea.
 
JimB said:
But are you of Ashkenazi Jewish origin? If not, then you should educate yourself as to their language - Yiddish - before trying to tell someone who is educated as to their language (in this particular respect, at least) that the word Yid is uniquely an anti-Semitic word when, in fact, it is first and foremost an Ashkenazi Jewish term of respect.
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Yes I am and I am telling you that the use of the Y word in today's society is anti semitic. It is not a term of respect and the numbers of people who speak Yiddish in the UK is so tiny it wouldn't even register.
 
Eds said:
Yes I am and I am telling you that the use of the Y word in today's society is anti semitic. It is not a term of respect and the numbers of people who speak Yiddish in the UK is so tiny it wouldn't even register.
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Use of the word by Spurs fans to refer specifically to Spurs fans and players etc is emphatically, obviously and demonstrably not anti-Semitic. If you or anyone else chooses to ignore that context and insists on being offended, then that is your problem, not ours.
 
JimB said:
Use of the word by Spurs fans to refer specifically to Spurs fans and players etc is emphatically, obviously and demonstrably not anti-Semitic. If you or anyone else chooses to ignore that context and insists on being offended, then that is your problem, not ours.
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Thank you very much for letting me know when I can and can't be offended by the use of an anti semitic word. Not sure you can refer to any players as that though seeing as none of them are Jewish but hey you know best as a leading authority.
 
JimB said:
I am a Spurs fan and we use the word in songs multiple times in every match! No one gets thrown out. There was a very brief period a few years ago when, after lobbying by Chelsea fan David Baddiel, police arrested a few Spurs fans for using the word. But those few cases were quickly laughed out of court - precisely because of mens rea.
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Cheers Jim, I remember Baddiel doing that, perhaps it’s why I thought it wasn’t sung anymore, I stand very much corrected

Anyway, the very best of luck in the final, I know a couple of Spurs supporters, good lads from Ashton-under-Lyne, bizarre why they choose Spurs but one of them is a Season Ticket holder who goes to most of the Euro away games as well, he’s known as “Tottenham Dave”. I will be cheering you on even though if the Dippers win I get £200.
 
JimB said:
Use of the word by Spurs fans to refer specifically to Spurs fans and players etc is emphatically, obviously and demonstrably not anti-Semitic. If you or anyone else chooses to ignore that context and insists on being offended, then that is your problem, not ours.
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I feel dirty but 100% agree with JimB here
 
hammocity said:
Cheers Jim, I remember Baddiel doing that, perhaps it’s why I thought it wasn’t sung anymore, I stand very much corrected

Anyway, the very best of luck in the final, I know a couple of Spurs supporters, good lads from Ashton-under-Lyne, bizarre why they choose Spurs but one of them is a Season Ticket holder who goes to most of the Euro away games as well, he’s known as “Tottenham Dave”. I will be cheering you on even though if the Dippers win I get £200.
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If your mate Tottenham Dave needs an apartment for 7 in Central Madrid for the CL Final (for a very reasonable price) PM me..
 
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