Spurs thread 2019/20

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It is only a racist term in certain very specific contexts. I’ll repost what I posted a couple of months ago on this thread:


Brief history: Back in the 1970's-80's, fans of other clubs (particularly other London clubs and / or clubs with a hard core, right wing following) would routinely sing vile antisemitic songs at Spurs fans because Spurs had a significant Jewish fan base. After a while, Spurs fans as a whole (regardless of whether they were Jewish or not) fought back by claiming the words "yid" and "yiddo" for themselves. This drew the sting from the racists and the antisemitic chants largely disappeared.

By this time, referring to themselves as "yids" or "yiddos" had become a kind of badge of honour. But as the years went by, it just became habit. When Spurs fans chant the word "yid" or "yiddo" now, they mean only "Spurs fan" or "Spurs player". Nothing more than that.

"Yid" was originally an Ashkenazi Jewish word that meant, literally, "Jew". In yiddish, it is neutral or, when prefaced by "reb", respectful. It only became a pejorative in the employ of antisemites. I've seen claims from some quarters that Spurs fans had no right to reclaim the word and no right to use it still. That it belongs to Ashkenazi Jews.

Sheer nonsense, of course (just as the notion of cultural appropriation being a bad thing is sheer nonsense). No one owns language. Spoken language is just sounds. And words / sounds can have many meanings. They can also change meaning or develop further meanings. Language is fluid; not set in stone. Such has happened countless times in the history of most languages. Especially English. I would argue that for every time the word "yid" is now used in English as an offensive term towards Jews, it is used ten or twenty times as often to mean Spurs fan or player. A new meaning of the word has therefore entered the vernacular, if not yet the lexicon.

Lastly, we have enshrined in law in this country, the principle of Mens Rea. In the context of this discussion, Mens Rea determines when it is or isn't acceptable to use the word "yid". If someone were to walk into a synagogue or a Jewish supermarket and start angrily shouting and snarling about "yids", it's a safe bet that this person is an antisemite. If, however, a person is at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium, wearing a Tottenham shirt and smiling while singing "the thing I love most is being a yid", then it's a safe bet that this person is just a Spurs fan. Context is everything.

And if someone is determined to ignore context and take offence at the use of the word "yid" regardless, then that is their problem alone. No one has the right not to be offended.

So is using the N-word ok for black people because they are using it self-deprecatingly? But if I use it I am a racist? (Although I think the law has pretty much established that any use of the N-word is racist) In the same way, I can say I am a yid and that is not racist? But anyone else on here (with the exception of you and a couple of others) uses it then they are racists?

However much we pissed them off, I don't see any people using Yid on here to describe you or I or any Spurs fans. I am guessing they feel uncomfortable using it because they think it is racist. So if most reasonable people think the word is racist. And I am offended by it. And it is reasonable for me to think that. Then it is racist.
 
Mate, I really shouldn't have to explain it further. I have already laid out my thoughts on the matter with great care and clarity. If you want to know about when it might be okay for anyone to say the n word, go ask someone who knows a lot about that topic. I don't. I do, however, know about the word yid. I know about its respectful origins in yiddish. I know how it came to be associated with Spurs. I know about Mens Rea. I know how the meaning of words can change - in this instance now inarguably legitimised by the addition of a second meaning of "yid" (to mean Spurs fan or player) and by the addition of the new word "yiddo" (also to mean Spurs fan or player) to the global authority on the English language - the OED.

Did you know that another common pejorative for a Jew is the word "bagel"? Does that mean that the word bagel is inherently racist? That we must never use it? Of course not. What it means is that, in the modern vernacular, the word has more than one meaning - like countless other words. It means that we have to use our own intelligence, linguistic familiarity and social experience to discern the context in which the word is being used. We do so with those countless other words hundreds of times every day. We are therefore equally capable of discerning the context in which the words yid and yiddo are used. Anyone who chooses to be offended by insisting that the words yid and yiddo are racist regardless of the context has no understanding of the origin of either meaning of the word; no understanding more generally of the nature of language; and no understanding of the principle of Mens Rea. Either that or, for bizarre moralising reasons of their own, they want to be offended.
 
So why hasn’t that CNUT Delle Alli been persecuted and hounded by the media as Bernardo was. Oh that’s right, he plays for Spurs.
 
So is using the N-word ok for black people because they are using it self-deprecatingly? But if I use it I am a racist? (Although I think the law has pretty much established that any use of the N-word is racist) In the same way, I can say I am a yid and that is not racist? But anyone else on here (with the exception of you and a couple of others) uses it then they are racists?

However much we pissed them off, I don't see any people using Yid on here to describe you or I or any Spurs fans. I am guessing they feel uncomfortable using it because they think it is racist. So if most reasonable people think the word is racist. And I am offended by it. And it is reasonable for me to think that. Then it is racist.

stop using and after full-stops.

It's in the dictionary as applicable to Spurs fans and players, so it's free to use without connotations. Reclaiming words has its consequences.
 
stop using and after full-stops.

It's in the dictionary as applicable to Spurs fans and players, so it's free to use without connotations. Reclaiming words has its consequences.
There’s nothing wrong with using "And" after a full stop


We are told not to do it as kids because as youngsters, we would be starting every sentence with "And".

@JPBB's use of it was fully justified.
 
There’s nothing wrong with using "And" after a full stop


We are told not to do it as kids because as youngsters, we would be starting every sentence with "And".

@JPBB's use of it was fully justified.

I like it.

It feels punchy - the literary equivalent of prodding someone in the chest with your finger. (Sorry JimB).

Although I acknowledge it is quite an aggressive and rude writing style.
 
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Is that Dele Alli/twitter/racist thing picked up by media and FA already?? What are they waiting for to ban him?
 
Good old race card, thrown around by middle aged white people who decides what's racist and what's not.

Bernado and Alli, Two lads having a joke. Shit my inbox fills up with memes daily with this Corona bollocks.

Anyway, im sure Alli and Silva called each other tonight about their right wing extremism and plotted to wipe out some ethnic minorities, the rotten racists.

Gotta love the faux outrage

Dead right, C, and has Alli been stung for £50k and a match?
 
Son never meant to injure the opponent, you know this Karen. This is a bit low. The innocuous foul lead to it, and that's why it was rescinded
I was a bit harsh but has been a nasty shit this season,he was being spiteful when he went for the player from behind getting his own back and the kicking of the other player,i think he is a great player
 
I was a bit harsh but has been a nasty shit this season,he was being spiteful when he went for the player from behind getting his own back and the kicking of the other player,i think he is a great player
Because he done a soft kick against Rudiger too!? Unfortunately that's a red card according to VAR, but a kick in the bollocks from Maguire is an accident. Son is probably our least dirty player
 
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