Student Debt

[Silva Citizen]

Back in the day the education was free but you still had to fund digs and pay for your food and living expenses. To most working class people that was unattainable and the biggest obstacle UNLESS you got a grant or was sponsored.

The people I know worked there way through Uni.
My daughter also worked her way through doing around 24 hours a week in a pub. I also helped her out, but there’s still a colossal debt there. She’s on target and tipped to come out with a first so we are immensely proud of her.
My real point is should the government be allowed to saddle this debt on the kids for something that was once free in a system that served a purpose ?
If it was private enterprise doing this there would be a colossal outcry.

 

[metalblue]

I’ve just seen the over £45k debt that my daughter owes the nation after three years Uni and I am fuming.

They say it’s not real debt and It doesn’t affect a students ability to get loans such as mortgages - Maybe not but it sure as hell affects there ability to repay loans when the debt is being taken at source.
If this type of debt was being sold by ocean finance there sure as hell would be a mis selling scandal.

Is 18 too soon to be giving our kids decisions on debt that potentially will affect the rest of their lives ?

As an employer I can honestly say that a University degree does little to enhance a thirty somethings job prospects (Supply Chain) as there are just so many of people with degrees now. I give much more weight to experience and social awareness than I do qualification's, so is there value in degrees ?

How many people who went to university instead of real work (4 years approx £60k debt) against 4 years of earning say 25k a year =£100k reckon that their degree has bridges the 160k plus interest gap ?

I know someone who had student debt flag up on their background check for a security clearance.

I thought that was pretty mental.

 

[BimboBob]

Not knocking Archaeology mate and I am sure somewhere there will be the odd well paid job but a quick google search shows most salary’s in the range of 24 - 48k.
without demeaning any profession a decent tradesman is charging out at over £200 a day round here, That’s an equivalent often with a free college / polytechnic education.

Yes, but where's the fun in that?

 

[mexico1970]

The people I know worked there way through Uni.
My daughter also worked her way through doing around 24 hours a week in a pub. I also helped her out, but there’s still a colossal debt there. She’s on target and tipped to come out with a first so we are immensely proud of her.
My real point is should the government be allowed to saddle this debt on the kids for something that was once free in a system that served a purpose ?
If it was private enterprise doing this there would be a colossal outcry.

It was free until everyone went, if it were still low numbers then it would have stayed free. The only way to avoid the debt is not to go in the first place.

 

[Lavinda Past]

It was free until everyone went, if it were still low numbers then it would have stayed free. The only way to avoid the debt is not to go in the first place.

I understood it to be Blair's way to reduce youth unemployment. Create worthless / easy courses for all and sundry to take and let them incur debt to pay for it if they ever get a decent paying job.

 

[Earlyriser]

The reality is that there is now a gap between some of those just graduating and those still studying as against the jobs available within the sectors they are hoping to enter. AI has already had a substantial impact on the jobs available in the creative sector and the law and yet there appears to be no decrease in either the number of courses being offered or the students applying. For some of them their dreams will remain just that

 

[Silva Citizen]

I understood it to be Blair's way to reduce youth unemployment. Create worthless / easy courses for all and sundry to take and let them incur debt to pay for it if they ever get a decent paying job.

Think Blair over simplified it and promoted it with education education education being his Mantra. I think it was Major that introduced it though after Corbyn ? Campaigned for universities to be open to all as many kids were from deprived areas. Doubt today system was what he envisaged though. All parties have culpability in this one.

 

[RobMCFC]

I don’t know why they call it a student loan - it’s a tax. Once you earn above a threshold- I think it’s £26k at the moment, you pay 9% of everything you earn. So earn £30k and you pay ~ less than £400 a year off your loan. You will probably never pay off your outstanding debt, in fact you’d be stupid to do that unless you earned serious money, because it’s wiped after 30 years.

As to whether it’s worth it, I’d say yes because my two daughters would never have got they jobs they have without a degree (masters degree in both their cases), but there will be lots of people who end up doing jobs where it won’t have been worth it.

 

[mackenzie]

My only child is now aged 42. However, I'd still say today what I said to him 25 years ago....go for an apprenticeship.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

The problem is as the debt has increased, the value of the qualification has gone down. It used to be a no-brainer. You get into a bit of debt, but your earnings potential over your lifetime easily makes up for it. Nowadays, it's a far more of a gamble. And then they wonder why no-one can afford a house and no-one is having kids when they get an additional 9% tax on all of their earnings from the age of 21.

And it's not even about the choice of degree either, because the more potentially lucrative degrees like law, finance or computer science are so oversubscribed in relation to the number of jobs in those fields. Most law graduates are never becoming a lawyer by a huge margin.

It isn’t 9% extra on all their earnings.

 

[york away to this!]

The youngest This! offspring smashed his GCSEs, though chose an apprenticeship in civil/structural engineering, rather than doing A levels/uni.
He's just bagged the A-level equivalent and is starting the degree level.
He's working for a global practice, day release for college, working on some great projects, earning a great salary, learning on the job, has his own car and has just bought his first apartment.
When he qualifies for his degree he'll have 6 years more experience than the uni graduates.
He's 19.
Mind you, he missed out on freshers' week...

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I don’t know why they call it a student loan - it’s a tax. Once you earn above a threshold- I think it’s £26k at the moment, you pay 9% of everything you earn. So earn £30k and you pay ~ less than £400 a year off your loan. You will probably never pay off your outstanding debt, in fact you’d be stupid to do that unless you earned serious money, because it’s wiped after 30 years.

As to whether it’s worth it, I’d say yes because my two daughters would never have got they jobs they have without a degree (masters degree in both their cases), but there will be lots of people who end up doing jobs where it won’t have been worth it.

Absolutely spot on.
My three kids have 6 degrees between them.
They are all earning far more than I ever did at their ages pro rata with great prospects.
One a solicitor with the sky being the limit on her future, another a company director in his 30s.
It’s all about what you study and where you study it.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

The reason that some of debt is not paid back is because they never earn enough money despite the supposed financial "advantages" that going to university brings. Interestingly when fees for university were introduced the majority of the people that voted for it were graduates who had benefitted from a free university education (and in many cases had received grants to help them through university) The massive expasion in university places and the ridiculous aim of a 'degree educated' population was utter bollocks. Both my sons went to university, left saddled with debt and neither of them would have got there in the 1970's because they wouldn't have passed the exams needed to get there. There has been a continuous dumbing down of education standards for decades now and it really makes me angry. When I was still working I worked with numerous graduates who couldn't spell, had appalling grammar, no idea of history or geography because it isn't taught any more. Being able to take a calculator to a maths exam says it all doesn't it?

They should never have stopped teaching how to use a trebuchet either.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I certainly don’t want something for nothing. My point is several fold but in essence I don’t see the present system as an improvement over the previous system whereby the nation invested in those kids that had earned the right through schooling results.

If you move it on a stage and I don’t want to go off topic, keeping the kids in education until aged mid 20s means that they are not available to or paying into the system so it’s little wonder the pension age is being pushed up.

Men who started work in the 80s on the whole got in a 50
Year shift and qualified for a pension. Todays kids don’t start until 25 so a 50
Year shift takes them to mid 70s. And by then it’s full circle they are needing to do the jobs that the school leavers could have had.

Bollocks!
How many men in the 80s started work at 15?
Hint: the school leaving age had been 16 from 1972.

 

[Really_here]

They should never have stopped teaching how to use a trebuchet either.

100% agree - the Americans are ahead of us yet again.


Longbow skills should be brought back too 8-)

 

[dickie davies]

I’ve just seen the over £45k debt that my daughter owes the nation after three years Uni and I am fuming.

They say it’s not real debt and It doesn’t affect a students ability to get loans such as mortgages - Maybe not but it sure as hell affects there ability to repay loans when the debt is being taken at source.
If this type of debt was being sold by ocean finance there sure as hell would be a mis selling scandal.

Is 18 too soon to be giving our kids decisions on debt that potentially will affect the rest of their lives ?

As an employer I can honestly say that a University degree does little to enhance a thirty somethings job prospects (Supply Chain) as there are just so many of people with degrees now. I give much more weight to experience and social awareness than I do qualification's, so is there value in degrees ?

How many people who went to university instead of real work (4 years approx £60k debt) against 4 years of earning say 25k a year =£100k reckon that their degree has bridges the 160k plus interest gap ?

My eldest did her undergrad then worked, before going back to uni and getting a physio Masters
Her debt is just less than 100k

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

It’s one of those horses for courses situations, there’s no one-size-fits-all answer on what is the best approach to take in life. And these days you have to really think hard about the long-term pros/cons.

With the tuition fees and interest rates as they are today you have to think of it as a graduate tax. Then ask yourself, will my future earnings be worth that 9% extra marginal tax I’m going to be paying? For a lot of people the answer will be no.

On the other hand, some very high-paying careers, or jobs that people are passionate about, are completely locked off if you don’t have a degree - and not any degree but the right degree from the right place.

I was the first person in my family to go to university - low income background, maxed out the grants, still came out with £30k of debt. But I did my degree because it was known to be difficult and it would open doors for me both professionally and to build my network (a very underrated part of doing a degree). Everybody who tried to work part-time alongside had dropped off the course by the final year and either were doing a different course or had left university completely. It was brutal and can say it was the hardest I’ve ever worked in my life before or since. I was regularly studying through the night.

I suffered my way through it to be honest, but I look back now 15 years later and it was the best thing I ever did. It gave me a love for learning. I’ve had a great career in an industry that I wouldn’t have gotten anywhere near without a degree. I’m now in the middle of doing my fourth degree. All my debts are paid. I got on the housing ladder pretty quickly, especially given I’ve never had a penny of help from my parents. I’m on track to retire early.

I think my advice to people weighing things up is that university might be right or might not be, but if you’re going to go, then go with intention. Go to learn, go to achieve something, don’t just go to make up the numbers or because your mates are going. It can be life-changing but it can be a cost you’ll carry with you your entire working life, so if you’re going to go then do something you know you won’t regret.

 

[Silva Citizen]

Bollocks!
How many men in the 80s started work at 15?
Hint: the school leaving age had been 16 from 1972.

I started at 16 in 1983 and was scheduled to draw a pension at 65 at that point -49 years - now 67. 51 years.

 

[WT86]

Important to remember there are no guarantees in the trades either. My grandfather was a glazier with a shop of his own and he made decent money most of his life, but by the time he was ~50 that industry was in decline due to mass-produced windows etc. He had left school at 14 and there was nothing else he could do, so he ended up having to close the shop and get by on a limited income for the rest of his life. There's no perfect choice but if you're serious about it education is often a good one.

 

[Silva Citizen]

It’s one of those horses for courses situations, there’s no one-size-fits-all answer on what is the best approach to take in life. And these days you have to really think hard about the long-term pros/cons.

With the tuition fees and interest rates as they are today you have to think of it as a graduate tax. Then ask yourself, will my future earnings be worth that 9% extra marginal tax I’m going to be paying? For a lot of people the answer will be no.

On the other hand, some very high-paying careers, or jobs that people are passionate about, are completely locked off if you don’t have a degree - and not any degree but the right degree from the right place.

I was the first person in my family to go to university - low income background, maxed out the grants, still came out with £30k of debt. But I did my degree because it was known to be difficult and it would open doors for me both professionally and to build my network (a very underrated part of doing a degree). Everybody who tried to work part-time alongside had dropped off the course by the final year and either were doing a different course or had left university completely. It was brutal and can say it was the hardest I’ve ever worked in my life before or since. I was regularly studying through the night.

I suffered my way through it to be honest, but I look back now 15 years later and it was the best thing I ever did. It gave me a love for learning. I’ve had a great career in an industry that I wouldn’t have gotten anywhere near without a degree. I’m now in the middle of doing my fourth degree. All my debts are paid. I got on the housing ladder pretty quickly, especially given I’ve never had a penny of help from my parents. I’m on track to retire early.

I think my advice to people weighing things up is that university might be right or might not be, but if you’re going to go, then go with intention. Go to learn, go to achieve something, don’t just go to make up the numbers or because your mates are going. It can be life-changing but it can be a cost you’ll carry with you your entire working life, so if you’re going to go then do something you know you won’t regret.

Absolutely no doubt you are right mate. Uni was the best thing that happened to my daughter, She’s learned how to be independent and made friends / network that will no doubt last for life. She’s worked camp America and is aiming for a paid internship next year. The experience from start to finish has been nothing but a positive for her.
My question however remains, is it right that the government peddles these loans to our young ?
Where else would a 18 year old be sold a loan that will follow them for life ?
How many of these kids are hampered by the loan in later life ?
I also begrudge the fact the the cheeky bastards in Whitehall expected me to subsidise there scheme because I earned enough to support her.
I would always support her but I find the fact that Whitehall expects me to abhorrent