Suella Braverman - sacked as Home Secretary (p394)

[Prestwich_Blue]

Enoch Powell was sacked by Ted Heath for saying similar things to Braverman. How times, and political morals and standards, change.

 

[WRicko]

That's a good question.

If you are sincere then the question might best be split in two

1. Is there a common British culture?

2. If so what does it look like?

Labour doesn't like talking about culture but it does like talking about values. Lucy Powell, the shadow secretary of state for digital, culture, media and sport wrote the following in June last year....

"As we come together as a nation to celebrate the Queen’s remarkable platinum jubilee, we also unite around our bunting and flags in a moment of pure British patriotism. Being patriotic isn’t something that Labour has always looked comfortable with, but progressive politics has been at its most successful and transformational when it captures the best of British values, nurtures our world-famous institutions and instils a belief that our best days lie ahead of us, not just in the past....
The vast majority of decent Britons believe in live and let live, love and let love. In the words of my good friend Jo Cox, we have much more that unites us than that which divides us. Tolerance, openness and generosity are core British beliefs.

A quick survey across British politics today tells us that it’s not the Conservatives that enshrine these patriotic principles but Labour.
First, our British values, which we hold dear and are known for around the world: diplomacy, rule of law, decency and integrity. Our country has always led the way as a measured and decent example to the world.....
But patriotism is also a belief, confidence and determination that our country’s future can be better than our past, and a promise to British people that the next generation will do better than the last."

Do you reckon there's anything in this?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...lieve-britains-best-days-are-ahead-not-behind

In other words there is no common British culture and may not be British values and if there are they are subjective and not uniquely British so immigrants are no more integrating into Britain than they would be America or any other Western Country and probably most other country’s round the world unless your going to get all superior even perhaps xenophobic or worse

 

[The perfect fumble]

In other words there is no common British culture and may not be British values and if there are they are subjective and not uniquely British so immigrants are no more integrating into Britain than they would be America or any other Western Country and probably most other country’s round the world unless your going to get all superior even perhaps xenophobic or worse

My apologies, I thought you were sincere.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

In other words there is no common British culture and may not be British values and if there are they are subjective and not uniquely British so immigrants are no more integrating into Britain than they would be America or any other Western Country and probably most other country’s round the world unless your going to get all superior even perhaps xenophobic or worse

The whole point about "British culture" is that we're a melting pot of many different cultures. Romans, Saxons, Danes, Normans going back over a thousand years. The Manchester cotton industry was essentially set up by Flemish Huguenot weavers escaping religious persecution. Followed in more recent times by the Irish, Jews, West Indians, South Asians, Chinese, Africans, Italians, Eastern Europeans and many others.

Britain's major cities are among the most cosmopolitan in the world. That, to me, is "British culture".

 

[The perfect fumble]

The whole point about "British culture" is that we're a melting pot of many different cultures. Romans, Saxons, Danes, Normans going back over a thousand years. The Manchester cotton industry was essentially set up by Flemish Huguenot weavers escaping religious persecution. Followed in more recent times by the Irish, Jews, West Indians, South Asians, Chinese, Africans, Italians, Eastern Europeans and many others.

Britain's major cities are among the most cosmopolitan in the world. That, to me, is "British culture".

Capital cities like London and Paris and major cities like New York and even Manchester, are by their history and their economies more cosmopolitan than the countries they are in, they are, as you say, a melting pot.

A “melting pot” is a society in which multiple cultures mix freely, borrow from each other, and gradually blend together.

This is Domalino's post where he gives two definitions of multiculturalism....

The term multiculturalism has a range of meanings within the contexts of sociology, political philosophy, and colloquial use. In sociology and in everyday usage, it is a synonym for "ethnic pluralism", with the two terms often used interchangeably, and for cultural pluralism in which various ethnic and cultural groups exist in a single society.​

​

​

Collins Definition​

Multiculturalism is a situation in which all the different cultural or racial groups in a society have equal rights and opportunities, and none is ignored or regarded as unimportant.​

​

OED Definition​

As a descriptive term, multiculturalism refers to the coexistence of people with many cultural identities in a common state, society, or community.​

​

I would be incredibly surprised if any of the people you've argued with in this thread recognise or accept the definition of multiculturalism you posted.

All perfectly fine, but clearly from these definitions multiculturalism is not the same as melting pot, in fact melting pot, with its emphasis on blending undermines the cultural uniqueness of "different cultural groups in society". The critics of melting pot see it not as integration (there's nothing to integrate with) but assimilation, the destruction of ones distinct cultural identity.

So many things muddy this debate, the polarisation of racism as black versus white, I don't need to tell you what a misrepresentation that is, as Diane Abbott has found to her cost. And that Britain has no culture to call her own, that we are all citizens of the world now, that history, tradition, values, institutions, national identity, its all in flux in one enormous cosmopolitan flurry.

 

[west didsblue]

On the day that Braverman outdid herself with a hateful fascistic speech full of lies and bile I can’t understand why one particular poster is determined to sidetrack the thread to blather on and on about the definition of multiculturalism. If he started a thread on it he could post all he wants but I think this thread should stick to what its title says it should be about.
On that note I want to reiterate that Braverman’s a fucking **** whose only strategy is to appeal to the basest instincts of fucking morons, and it’s worrying that there seems to be so many of them around. I know I’m repeating myself but it can’t be said too often.

 

[WestGorton]

Poison.

 

[WestGorton]

The Blackshirts are on the march. Farage and Braverman leading the charge.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Have Sky signed up to backing her?

All I heard was hate speech, Sky have it as future government.

I’m lost, the culture wars are way beyond me.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

That's a good question.

If you are sincere then the question might best be split in two

1. Is there a common British culture?

2. If so what does it look like?

Labour doesn't like talking about culture but it does like talking about values. Lucy Powell, the shadow secretary of state for digital, culture, media and sport wrote the following in June last year....

"As we come together as a nation to celebrate the Queen’s remarkable platinum jubilee, we also unite around our bunting and flags in a moment of pure British patriotism. Being patriotic isn’t something that Labour has always looked comfortable with, but progressive politics has been at its most successful and transformational when it captures the best of British values, nurtures our world-famous institutions and instils a belief that our best days lie ahead of us, not just in the past....
The vast majority of decent Britons believe in live and let live, love and let love. In the words of my good friend Jo Cox, we have much more that unites us than that which divides us. Tolerance, openness and generosity are core British beliefs.

A quick survey across British politics today tells us that it’s not the Conservatives that enshrine these patriotic principles but Labour.
First, our British values, which we hold dear and are known for around the world: diplomacy, rule of law, decency and integrity. Our country has always led the way as a measured and decent example to the world.....
But patriotism is also a belief, confidence and determination that our country’s future can be better than our past, and a promise to British people that the next generation will do better than the last."

Do you reckon there's anything in this?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...lieve-britains-best-days-are-ahead-not-behind

Are you supporting Braverman?