Syria (merged)

[CTID1988]

Sick to death of being americas butt slut. Why cant we just be like Switzerland and keep our fucking nose out

 

[BlueHammer85]

Those guidelines are enshrined in international humanitarian law. The geneva convention was always designed as self regulating within symmetric conflicts (you deliberately bomb my hospital I'll bomb yours), however asymmetric conflicts such as Syria naturally remove this concept of reciprocity. Indeed it has been considered that the weaker combatants would more likely use tactics outside law due to this military disadvantage that they should have less obligations placed upon their compliance. What we have here is the military superior side (potentially as yet to be proven) using tactics (CW) that violate convention and where the concept of necessity would not stand, in that case reciprocity can only be executed by an external power of equal or greater force. This is very different situation to conflicts where both sides have butchered one anothers civilians and the concept of reciprocity exists, however unpalatable.

You still haven't explained why lives taken by chemical warfare are more important, and you won't because you can't.

Your proposed solution as well, is to weaken Assad, without, you said, handing the upper hand to the rebels, thus returning us closer to stalemate. This will prolong the conflict and result in more lives being taken. Undoubtedly.

Therefore, I say, not only do you not have a justification for air or missile strikes, you have no justification for what they might achieve. Your proposed response to 335 deaths by gas is to ensure many many more will die by making the conflict last even longer? Ah, never mind, I'm sure the deaths will be highly conventional. Knives, bullets, fire, explosions. As long as there's no fucking gas it's all gravy.

So Skash, how do we stop the violence that is going on, doing nothing even when we have the capabilities ?

 

[Skashion]

So Skash, how do we stop the violence that is going on, doing nothing even when we have the capabilities ?

Already said, do nothing. Assad winning is the quickest way out, and he is doing. I believe this is why we've suddenly become interested in the humanitarian situation after not giving a shit for two years. It is clear that the western governments do not want to see Assad win because Assad is an ally of Iran and Iran is still the ultimate target. At the very least they want an Iran that will play fetch for them. They want a good bitch.

 

[lust overlord]

Ffs.

 

[The Flash]

Sick to death of being americas butt slut. Why cant we just be like Switzerland and keep our fucking nose out

Hmmm...like they did with Nazi gold etc?

Just sayin'....

 

[SWP's back]

Leave them to it, may the best side win

Have to agree.

Thank fuck we didn't have anyone else butting in on ours way back when.

NB: If the baddies win, then nuke them.

Which side are the baddies on?

Not decided yet.

 

[BlueHammer85]

So Skash, how do we stop the violence that is going on, doing nothing even when we have the capabilities ?

Already said, do nothing. Assad winning is the quickest way out, and he is doing. I believe this is why we've suddenly become interested in the humanitarian situation after not giving a shit for two years. It is clear that the western governments do not want to see Assad win because Assad is an ally of Iran and Iran is still the ultimate target. At the very least they want an Iran that will play fetch for them. They want a good bitch.

How can you want Assad to remain in power, the bloke is evil

 

[mindmyp's_n_q's]

So Skash, how do we stop the violence that is going on, doing nothing even when we have the capabilities ?

Already said, do nothing. Assad winning is the quickest way out, and he is doing. I believe this is why we've suddenly become interested in the humanitarian situation after not giving a shit for two years. It is clear that the western governments do not want to see Assad win because Assad is an ally of Iran and Iran is still the ultimate target. At the very least they want an Iran that will play fetch for them. They want a good bitch.

How can you want Assad to remain in power, the bloke is evil

But predictable evil.

 

[Unknown_Genius]

So Skash, how do we stop the violence that is going on, doing nothing even when we have the capabilities ?

Already said, do nothing. Assad winning is the quickest way out, and he is doing. I believe this is why we've suddenly become interested in the humanitarian situation after not giving a shit for two years. It is clear that the western governments do not want to see Assad win because Assad is an ally of Iran and Iran is still the ultimate target. At the very least they want an Iran that will play fetch for them. They want a good bitch.

How can you want Assad to remain in power, the bloke is evil

Who told you that, Call me Dave and the US Government.

 

[DavidSilvasLeftFoot]

So Skash, how do we stop the violence that is going on, doing nothing even when we have the capabilities ?

Already said, do nothing. Assad winning is the quickest way out, and he is doing. I believe this is why we've suddenly become interested in the humanitarian situation after not giving a shit for two years. It is clear that the western governments do not want to see Assad win because Assad is an ally of Iran and Iran is still the ultimate target. At the very least they want an Iran that will play fetch for them. They want a good bitch.

How can you want Assad to remain in power, the bloke is evil

What is his alternative? Al-Nusra. An Extremist political faction with very strong links to Al-Queda. A potential regime that will have no regard for the minorities of Syria whatsoever. As soon as these people come to power we can expect thousands of Shiites, Kurds and Christians to be killed by supporters of Al-Nusra in revenge for supporting the regime that protects them. If they come to power expect chemical weapons to come into the possession of terrorist groups such as Al-Queda (if it isn't already). We can also expect more terrorist attacks on our shores.<br /><br />-- Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:10 pm --<br /><br />Yes! George Galloway is speaking!

 

[Skashion]

How can you want Assad to remain in power, the bloke is evil

You've not bothered following this thread at all then apparently and I'm not going to bother reposting everything I've said for your benefit, so here: <a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/search.php?keywords=syria&terms=all&author=Skashion&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">search.php?keywords=syria&terms=all&author=Skashion&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search</a>

Essentially Assad is the lesser of two evils and if he won, there's a chance Syria could go back to being relatively stable and peaceful with Syria's Shiite, Christian and Kurds (35% of the population in total), protected from genocide. If Al Qaeda affiliated Al Nusra win, as they have already threatened, and as they have already started, there will be massacres and genocides against these minorities. I think there's virtually zero chance a country lorded over by Al Nusra could be better than one by Assad.

 

[malg]

So Skash, how do we stop the violence that is going on, doing nothing even when we have the capabilities ?

Already said, do nothing. Assad winning is the quickest way out, and he is doing. I believe this is why we've suddenly become interested in the humanitarian situation after not giving a shit for two years. It is clear that the western governments do not want to see Assad win because Assad is an ally of Iran and Iran is still the ultimate target. At the very least they want an Iran that will play fetch for them. They want a good bitch.

Pretty much nailed it there.

 

[BlueHammer85]

How can you want Assad to remain in power, the bloke is evil

You've not bothered following this thread at all then apparently and I'm not going to bother reposting everything I've said for your benefit, so here: <a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/search.php?keywords=syria&terms=all&author=Skashion&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">search.php?keywords=syria&terms=all&author=Skashion&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search</a>

Essentially Assad is the lesser of two evils and if he won, there's a chance Syria could go back to being relatively stable and peaceful with Syria's Shiite, Christian and Kurds (35% of the population in total), protected from genocide. If Al Qaeda affiliated Al Nusra win, as they have already threatened, and as they have already started, there will be massacres and genocides against these minorities. I think there's virtually zero chance a country lorded over by Al Nusra could be better than one by Assad.

Fair comment, But just doing nothing seems not only immoral but also sends out a message to the whole region that chemical attacks can be forgiven and any regime is free to do the same

 

[Skashion]

Fair comment, But just doing nothing seems not only immoral but also sends out a message to the whole region that chemical attacks can be forgiven and any regime is free to do the same

Doing something is far more immoral if it leads to more deaths, only this time the blood would be on our hands as well.

We've already sent the message that you can kill as many as you want as long as it isn't with chemical weapons. That is the far worse message. Ultimately I always favour the course of action that I think will result in the most lives being spared. At the moment I think the course that would result in the fewest people being killed would be to let Assad win. Targeting Assad, and slowing or ending his progress, will prolong the war and create more deaths. Handing the upperhand to Al Nusra and letting them win will, I believe, lead to the greatest number of deaths, with a potential for a substantial genocide against SEVEN million Syrian Shiites, Christians and Kurds. Hundreds of thousands could die, and not in a conflict where both sides commit attrocities, but in brutal cold one-sided murder if Al Nusra wins. There are many examples already. Don't believe me, google the words 'Al Nusra massacres' and you find examples of Al Nusra massacring Shiites, Christian and Kurdish villages. That is what I believe will happen many fold over if they gain power. Whereas I know what we get with Assad. Two years ago, yes, Assad was a dictator, but he wasn't a particularly murderous one. Syria was relatively stable, relatively peaceful and Syria's minorities were relatively protected. Undemocratic, yes, Sunnis oppressed, yes, but people were not being killed daily. That Syria, right now, looks like the best it can get, and the Syrian people actually agree with me on that: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/31/nato-data-assad-winning-the-war-for-syrians-hearts-and-minds/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/31/ ... and-minds/</a>

LONDON — After two years of civil war, support for the regime of Syrian President Bashar Assad was said to have sharply increased.

NATO has been studying data that told of a sharp rise in support for Assad. The data, compiled by Western-sponsored activists and organizations, showed that a majority of Syrians were alarmed by the Al Qaida takeover of the Sunni revolt and preferred to return to Assad, Middle East Newsline reported.

“The people are sick of the war and hate the jihadists more than Assad,” a Western source familiar with the data said. “Assad is winning the war mostly because the people are cooperating with him against the rebels.”

The data, relayed to NATO over the last month, asserted that 70 percent of Syrians support the Assad regime. Another 20 percent were deemed neutral and the remaining 10 percent expressed support for the rebels.

The sources said no formal polling was taken in Syria, racked by two years of civil war in which 90,000 people were reported killed. They said the data came from a range of activists and independent organizations that were working in Syria, particularly in relief efforts.

The data was relayed to NATO as the Western alliance has been divided over whether to intervene in Syria. Britain and France were said to have been preparing to send weapons to the rebels while the United States was focusing on protecting Syria’s southern neighbor Jordan.

A report to NATO said Syrians have undergone a change of heart over the last six months. The change was seen most in the majority Sunni community, which was long thought to have supported the revolt.

“The Sunnis have no love for Assad, but the great majority of the community is withdrawing from the revolt,” the source said. “What is left is the foreign fighters who are sponsored by Qatar and Saudi Arabia. They are seen by the Sunnis as far worse than Assad.”

 

[stonerblue]

As Skashion so eloquently keeps trying to point out, U.S and U.K. military intervention would see a massive escalation in violence. Every 'Jihadist' in the world will want to fight against them.

 

[Skashion]

As Skashion so eloquently keeps trying to point out, U.S and U.K. military intervention would see a massive escalation in violence. Every 'Jihadist' in the world will want to fight against them.

That's really not so much my concern. I do not believe that British and American soldiers will enter Syria. If they did, yes, absolutely. Every man and his dog is already in Syria, the wives and cats will follow if British and American soldiers do touch Syrian soil. My issue is this action will be targeted at Assad and any delay in an Assad victory or its ultimate prevention will cost more lives than doing nothing.

 

[Josh Blue]

Markt85 I know you are a wum now.

 

[Rascal]

Not one British life should be put at danger


I fucking hate this moralistic posturing from western govts. I fucking hate that young men die for no apparent reason. I fucking hate that cunts who have never done a proper job in there lives have the power to send our boys to die.

I fucking hate the sucking up to the USA and the special relationship bolloxs, i fucking hate that our leaders still think we are a world power. WE ARE FUCKING NOT WE ARE SKINT and making our own people suffer by the cuts the cunts are doing.

Every bomb or whatever we send could feed families for years.

Please dont get me wrong i feel deep sympathy for Syria and its people but i just do not see how our intervention helps anyone

 

[Unknown_Genius]

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Not one British life should be put at danger


I fucking hate this moralistic posturing from western govts. I fucking hate that young men die for no apparent reason. I fucking hate that ***** who have never done a proper job in there lives have the power to send our boys to die.

I fucking hate the sucking up to the USA and the special relationship bolloxs, i fucking hate that our leaders still think we are a world power. WE ARE FUCKING NOT WE ARE SKINT and making our own people suffer by the cuts the ***** are doing.

Every bomb or whatever we send could feed families for years.

Please dont get me wrong i feel deep sympathy for Syria and its people but i just do not see how our intervention helps anyone

I rarely agree with what you say, but I agree wholeheartedly with what Skashion and yourself are saying here. This is looking like more posturing bullshit, this time by the latest Prime Minister wanting his time in the spotlight. Cameron today, was forever spouting about 'Chemical Weapons' and the naive treaties attached to their use as the only reason for striking Syria, conveniently forgetting that it seems perfectly acceptable to slaughter thousands with Kalashnikovs, fragment grenades, flame throwers or machetes, but mention this and it's kick the fucking doors in and blast away.
Public opinion is apparently against this lunacy to a massive degree, And I'm one of them.