Syria (merged)

[west didsblue]

It is desperately sad for the Syrian people They are between a rock and a hard place. Assad on one side, Al Qaeda on the other. There can't be a happy ending that's for sure. The best way out I can see right now is a quick Assad triumph followed by a move towards a democracy along the lines of Lebanon's. Lebanon is a long way from perfect but the majority need representation in Syria and the minorities need protection. What neither need is to be ruled by fucking Taliban Mark II with genocidal scores to settle.

There's no good outcome. If Assad wins, he will instigate a huge purge on FSA supporters. If the rebels win, the terrorist groups that are currently allied to the FSA will turn on the new government and there will be a new civil war between the FSA and Al nusra / Al Qaeda etc, who will try to Talibanise the country.

 

[MadchesterCity]

I wish I could ignore the news, the footage to me looks staged but if is or not, either way thousands of children dying each week and intensity escalating.

Not sure how legitimite this site is but gives an idea of the timelines

http://www.genocidewatch.org/syria.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-...nce-rwandan-genocide-un-official-says/4826332

I really don't understand the hate and how anyone could murder a child, have we as people not learnt from previous humanitarian crisis.

Well them scared to death 3, 4 and 5 year old children will be being booked by Hollywood.

Don't talk shite mate.

not staged by the children, they are clearly the victims here!

 

[80s Shorts]

Protests against Assad began very early in 2011, peaceful and organised by Syrian peoples.

Once these people began to be murdered or disappeared then other groups began to form.

The main reason he has survived is because he has been propped up by Iran and Russia.

To simplify this situation as "Assad on one side, Al Qaeda on the other" is simplism at its worst.

Indeed, they did. I've mentioned that in saying the majority need representation which is currently being denied. Assad needs to go eventually but Al Nustra, the Al Qaeda affiliates, are by far the strongest faction amongst the rebels. It's hard to see beyond them gaining power if Assad is defeated through force of arms.

Most Syrians want Assad to triumph by the way. They know civil war is worse than not having democratic rights or falling under Al Qaeda: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/31/nato-data-assad-winning-the-war-for-syrians-hearts-and-minds/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/31/ ... and-minds/</a> <a class="postlink" href="http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/syrians-support-assad-western-propaganda" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... propaganda</a> So say two anti-Assad sources anyway. Syrians aren't stupid, they know what's going on and what's at stake and returning to the previous status quo is better than what's happening right now.

Saying I am simple when it comes to Middle Eastern politics is pretty well, might as say it, simple.

I at no point said you were simple mate.

I said that your opinion is simplistic.

Big difference.

You said that its " Assad vs Al Qaeda" That is evidently "simplistic"

However, it is a tragic situation. Certainly not one with which I meant to start a point scoring match.

 

[Skashion]

You said that its " Assad vs Al Qaeda" That is evidently "simplistic"

The source i posted, data gathered by NATO through western organisations on the ground in Syria, which offers the best insight we have into the minds of the Syrian people right now, is that they agree with me. But those Syrians are simple folk,

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

You said that its " Assad vs Al Qaeda" That is evidently "simplistic"

The source i posted, data gathered by NATO through western organisations on the ground in Syria, which offers the best insight we have into the minds of the Syrian people right now, is that they agree with me. But those Syrians are simple folk,

It is somewhat simplistic in my view. This started as a political/tribal conflict with the minority Alawite Shi'ite sect, which the Assads belong to, against the majority comprised of Sunni Syrians and the Kurds.

It then became what we could refer to as 'religious', when Hezbollah, backed by Syria & Iran, came in on the side of the government and a conglomeration of Islamist Sunni militias (which may well include Al Qaeda elements or those very sympathetic) then joined in.

Of course, as you know, it suits us to label anyone Arabic looking who is carrying a gun as 'Al Qaeda' these days.

 

[johnny on the spot]

Of course, as you know, it suits us to label anyone Arabic looking who is carrying a gun as 'Al Qaeda' these days.

Or to throw up as many mad proxies as possible to divert attention from our enabling of these atrocities?

 

[sweynforkbeard]

You said that its " Assad vs Al Qaeda" That is evidently "simplistic"

The source i posted, data gathered by NATO through western organisations on the ground in Syria, which offers the best insight we have into the minds of the Syrian people right now, is that they agree with me. But those Syrians are simple folk,

It is somewhat simplistic in my view. This started as a political/tribal conflict with the minority Alawite Shi'ite sect, which the Assads belong to, against the majority comprised of Sunni Syrians and the Kurds.

It then became what we could refer to as 'religious', when Hezbollah, backed by Syria & Iran, came in on the side of the government and a conglomeration of Islamist Sunni militias (which may well include Al Qaeda elements or those very sympathetic) then joined in.

Of course, as you know, it suits us to label anyone Arabic looking who is carrying a gun as 'Al Qaeda' these days.

So what am I to make of my new neighbour who introduced himself as Alan Kaidur and when he kindly allowed me to measure his complexion on my Dulux paint chart matched perfectly with the shade, 'Levantine Dusk?'

 

[johnny on the spot]

So what am I to make of my new neighbour who introduced himself as Alan Kaidur and when he kindly allowed me to measure his complexion on my Dulux paint chart matched perfectly with the shade, 'Levantine Dusk?'

Good grief. 8/10.

 

[sweynforkbeard]

So what am I to make of my new neighbour who introduced himself as Alan Kaidur and when he kindly allowed me to measure his complexion on my Dulux paint chart matched perfectly with the shade, 'Levantine Dusk?'

Good grief. 8/10.

So that's 4/5 0n that he's a Yorkshire terrorist? Or has my punctuation fallen below my usual spiffing standard and you cannot award me full marks?

 

[johnny on the spot]

So what am I to make of my new neighbour who introduced himself as Alan Kaidur and when he kindly allowed me to measure his complexion on my Dulux paint chart matched perfectly with the shade, 'Levantine Dusk?'

Good grief. 8/10.

So that's 4/5 0n that he's a Yorkshire terrorist? Or has my punctuation fallen below my usual spiffing standard and you cannot award me full marks?

Deficit encourages consolidation.

 

[Skashion]

It is somewhat simplistic in my view. This started as a political/tribal conflict with the minority Alawite Shi'ite sect, which the Assads belong to, against the majority comprised of Sunni Syrians and the Kurds.

It then became what we could refer to as 'religious', when Hezbollah, backed by Syria & Iran, came in on the side of the government and a conglomeration of Islamist Sunni militias (which may well include Al Qaeda elements or those very sympathetic) then joined in.

Of course, as you know, it suits us to label anyone Arabic looking who is carrying a gun as 'Al Qaeda' these days.

Well, it isn't. That's what it now boils down to in Syria. How it started is now irrelevant and I have now twice falsely been accused of overlooking the Syrian majority, which I haven't as I explicitly stated they need representation but not at the expense of the protection minorities have enjoyed in Syria up till 2011. Multiple genocides are a highly probable outcome if Assad goes down to force of arms.

You're quite a bit mixed up there. Hezbollah were the last to enter the conflict. Hezbollah coming in was a reaction to foreign Sunni militants, not the other way around. Again, the presence of foreign elements in Syria is something I already mentioned as well.

Who's us exactly? Anyway, it's certainly not every Sunni militant, it is a section of the Sunni militants, and by every account I've seen, by far the most powerful. This is backed up by the link I posted where the information gathered by NATO seems to confirm the Syrians now also think this way. I don't think it's far-fetched to say Al Nusra are Al Qaeda affiliated as they have made public statements confirming their allegiance to al-Zawahiri.

 

[johnny on the spot]

36 countries have referred the apparent chemical weapons attacks to the UN. France are talking about using force if the Security Council can't sort the issue.

France is seeking a reaction with "force" if a massacre in Syria involving chemical weapons is confirmed, its foreign minister has said.

"If it is proven, France's position is that there must be a reaction, a reaction that could take the form of a reaction with force," Laurent Fabius told BFM-TV.

"There are possibilities for responding," he said without elaborating.

He added that if the UN Security Council could not make a decision, one would have to be taken "in other ways".

The Syrian government has been urged to allow UN inspectors to visit the site where it is claimed more than 1,300 people died in a chemical weapons attack.

The National Coalition claims toxic gas was used by President Bashar al Assad's forces during a bombardment of rebel-held areas outside Damascus.

It said the death toll was likely to rise after a neighbourhood with many casualties was discovered in Zamalka.

Government officials said the claims were "totally false" and the international news organisations reporting them were "implicated in the shedding of Syrian blood and support terrorism".

<a class="postlink" href="http://news.sky.com/story/1131742/syria-call-for-force-if-chemicals-proven" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.sky.com/story/1131742/syria ... als-proven</a>

 

[sweynforkbeard]

Good grief. 8/10.

So that's 4/5 0n that he's a Yorkshire terrorist? Or has my punctuation fallen below my usual spiffing standard and you cannot award me full marks?

Deficit encourages consolidation.

My doctors exact words after my last bowel examination. I have to resit by the way.

 

[Josh Blue]

False flag

 

[SWP's back]

False flag

Another wonderful contribution.

 

[Unknown_Genius]

False flag

Its so obviously the "rebels". The Syrian government is in a decent position, what benefit do they get from gassing their own people (who a big chunk of on their side)? <a class="postlink" href="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-03-050613.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_Eas ... 50613.html</a>
They know the powers that be are fishing for a pretext to intervene, it goes completely against their own interests.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLVHdgpCmb4&feature=c4-overview&list=UU1vTH0ByVIcIOB83FbvHP7Q[/youtube]

 

[Josh Blue]

False flag

Another wonderful contribution.

Thanks pal, I thought it was pretty impressive that summed up whats just happened in two words where others have written paragraphs.

 

[Rocket-footed kolarov]

False flag

Another wonderful contribution.

Thanks pal, I thought it was pretty impressive that summed up whats just happened in two words where others have written paragraphs.

No it was just laziness really you could and should have elaborated. If you were in a lecture theatre giving a response then it would have had merit for being quick and straight to the point, but you are n't you can write as much as little as you want and because what you said was nothing new and not outside an envisioned possibility of most posters in this part of the thread- you really should have said more.

now if you had said false false flag or false false false flag you might have said something different.

The fact is for whatever reason you choose not to put too much effort into your posts and it makes you look more interested in portraying yourself as the torch bearing liberal and humanitarian- but the fact is you evidently don't know enough of what you are discussing so it just becomes fucking tedious, especially when others go to the effort of explaining their opinions only for you to offer one line responses.

This response from Chomsky to a Spartacist, pretty much sums you up, is not too dissimilar to your posting style.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg1_EIzQmSk[/youtube]

 

[Josh Blue]

Another wonderful contribution.

Thanks pal, I thought it was pretty impressive that summed up whats just happened in two words where others have written paragraphs.

No it was just laziness really you could and should have elaborated. If you were in a lecture theatre giving a response then it would have had merit for being quick and straight to the point, but you are n't you can write as much as little as you want and because what you said was nothing new and not outside an envisioned possibility of most posters in this part of the thread- you really should have said more.

now if you had said false false flag or false false false flag you might have said something different.

The fact is for whatever reason you choose not to put too much effort into your posts and it makes you look more interested in portraying yourself as the torch bearing liberal and humanitarian- but the fact is you evidently don't know enough of what you are discussing so it just becomes fucking tedious, especially when others go to the effort of explaining their opinions only for you to offer one line responses.

This response from Chomsky to a Spartacist, pretty much sums you up, is not too dissimilar to your posting style.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg1_EIzQmSk[/youtube]

No you're completely wrong.

 

[SWP's back]

I'm not sure if you are being satirical/ironic in your short answer there Josh.