Syria (merged)

[pominoz]

I was posting about you, as you well know.
You love defending anyone that "we" have ever fought or are now fighting, if you hate all that "we" stand for, why not fuck off to somewhere that shares your anti-Western views.
I agree with many of your posts, but this "Brits, Yanks and Jews are *****" is getting boring.
Peace and love ;)

I've already said on this thread the Second World War was Britain's finest hour. I also suspect I know a hell of lot more about it than you do. Have you been to MOSI so you can appreciate the advances made in computing by the British during the Second World War? Been to the Science Museum in London to see the Alan Turing exhibition have you? I was there two weeks ago. Started a thread about a British warbird in the past two months have you: <a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=287785" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=5&t=287785</a> Just because I don't agree that civilians need to be brutally murdered needlessly, with no tangible gains, you come out with this shit.

I am reporting your post though. I'm not going to tolerate accusations of anti-Semitism.

Go ahead, are you also going to report me for accusing you of being anti British and anti American?
Plus what the fuck has the fact that you have been to a couple of exhibitions got to do with having a different view?

 

[Skashion]

Go ahead, are you also going to report me for accusing you of being anti British and anti American?
Plus what the fuck has the fact that you have been to a couple of exhibitions got to do with having a different view?

I already had done. No, because they are nations. Labelling me as a racist is different to arguing that I have opposed many actions of the British and American governments. That is true. I oppose many actions of the Israeli government too, and of the Iranian and Syrian governments come to think of it. However, Israel =/= Jews. Glad I could help you out with that. I oppose the initiation of violence and I deplore civilian casualties. I'm such a soft arse left-winger that I don't even kill spiders, wasps, moths. Unnecessary deaths are a great evil to me. I don't try to find excuses to justify my country when it has done wrong, or others when they have. However, choosing the Second World War, as that war, is just about as fuckwitted as it gets. The Second World War was Britain's finest hour. We sacrificed ourself for the cause of freedom and to oppose genocide. We could have easily walked out of the war, and we didn't, and that is to our great credit.

You said I oppose Britain in all conflicts, and yet I hold British involvement in the Second World War in such high esteem, that any chance I get to show my interest in it, I do so. In the past year alone I've been to the HMS Belfast, Churchill War Rooms, Alan Turing Exhibition at the Science Museum, and posted one of my very rare threads on a great British warbird. To claim I'm anti-British in the case of the Second World War, is unbelievable stupidity. It couldn't be any more wrong if you tried.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

You sometimes appear like that fat ginger Muslim in London, who is so eager to be one of the boys it is comical.

The Japanese are fat ginger Muslims now? I am very amused.

I was posting about you, as you well know.
You love defending anyone that "we" have ever fought or are now fighting, if you hate all that "we" stand for, why not fuck off to somewhere that shares your anti-Western views.
I agree with many of your posts, but this "Brits, Yanks and Jews are *****" is getting boring.
Peace and love ;)

That's the benefit of living in a democracy. We can hold whatever opinions we want, within reason. There's lots of things I disagree with Skashion on but his arguments are always thoughtful and well-presented. You are free to take a different view but keep it civil please.

I can assure you Skashion is not in any way anti-Semitic.

 

[bluemanc]

Both Germany & Japan,Germany came pretty close, wanted an Atom bomb.
On another note we had bombed German Cities before we bombed Berlin & before Hitlers planes "accidentally" bombed London.
A few seem to be putting a lot of trust in Hitlers continued not bombing civilians in England,so IF he had developed the bomb i assume as he liked us you think we wouldnt be a target.
The guy was a raving lunatic that was capable of anything,the Jewish population in England would have been treated in the same was as he was treating them elsewhere so his so called non-civilian aggression would have been long forgotten.
Bit pedantic but Germany by bombing civilians in Poland AFTER we declared War on them, started the bombing of civilians.

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Breaking News: Senate Foreign Relations Panel Approves Resolution on Military Action in Syria

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.nytimes.com/?smid=tw-bna" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nytimes.com/?smid=tw-bna</a>

 

[Josh Blue]

The Japanese are fat ginger Muslims now? I am very amused.

I was posting about you, as you well know.
You love defending anyone that "we" have ever fought or are now fighting, if you hate all that "we" stand for, why not fuck off to somewhere that shares your anti-Western views.
I agree with many of your posts, but this "Brits, Yanks and Jews are *****" is getting boring.
Peace and love ;)

Your getting confused with Josh.

Skashion arguments are valid and pretty good. In fact .. I have a soft spot for him

You're* by the way Einstein.

 

[Josh Blue]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkamZg68jpk[/youtube]

17 minutes if your attention span can last that long. I'm pretty sure I know the people won't be able to concentrate that long....

 

[i kne albert davy]

Tragic as it was, it was necessary and justified.

Or, as in the opinions of Eisenhower, Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, Admiral Leahy, Chief of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, or John McCloy, Assistant Secretary of War, who were privy to the intelligence intercepts and assessments made of Japanese intent and strength, they could have accepted a Japanese surrender which involved keeping their emperor - you know, the emperor who remained after the war anyway. Or they could have waited for the Soviet invasion of Manchuria to win the unconditional surrender which wasn't even necessary. Plenty of other options to be had apart from firebombing the Japanese to smithereens, nuking them, or invading the home islands.

-- Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:05 pm --

Do you believe what Arthur Harris did helped bring the war to an end quicker? i.e. the fact that it demonstrated that we were quite prepared to stoop to their level and target civilians.

I don't believe it helped save any lives, no. By the way, the bombing of civilians needn't have happened. The Germans bombed civilian areas in London by mistake, we therefore bombed Berlin in a retaliatory strike, they then returned it with interest. If there had been clear communication, a back channel, between the sides, tens of thousands of British and hundreds of thousands of German lives could have been saved.

The initial bombing of London by the Luffewaffe was probable an accident but feel no pity for the German Guernica Warsaw and Rotterdam and a dozen other places were no accident the Germans for some reason thought they could bomb everyone but nobody could bomb them, fortunately they were badly wrong.The Allied bombing campaign on German kept thousands of men ,aircraft and a massive amount of munitions that could have been deployed in Russia or the west in Germany that alone justify s it in my book and saved many allied lives, this was a war to the finish not some distant skirmish, just imagine the World after a German Victory Do you honestly think we should have had dealings with Hitler and his murdering crowd.

 

[Benarbia_is_god]

I am very proud of this government for finally seeing sense and voting against going on another expensive (Life and financial) jaunt to a mess that has fuck all to do with us. The rebels are muslim extremists backed by Al Qaeda, as undesireable in my eyes as Assad and I bet you they would use chemical weapons if it was at their disposal.

It's going to get very messy other there in the next few years, the Americans and the Russians are on course for a massive falling out and just wait until Israel and Iran get involved. Let the Americans and the French sort it out, time to take a backseat for once. Isolationism argument is bollocks also, we don't have to join in with the bombing of other countries to be involved in the international community.

 

[pominoz]

The Japanese are fat ginger Muslims now? I am very amused.

I was posting about you, as you well know.
You love defending anyone that "we" have ever fought or are now fighting, if you hate all that "we" stand for, why not fuck off to somewhere that shares your anti-Western views.
I agree with many of your posts, but this "Brits, Yanks and Jews are *****" is getting boring.
Peace and love ;)

That's the benefit of living in a democracy. We can hold whatever opinions we want, within reason. There's lots of things I disagree with Skashion on but his arguments are always thoughtful and well-presented. You are free to take a different view but keep it civil please.

I can assure you Skashion is not in any way anti-Semitic.

Fair enough, i may, as another poster said, have been mixing his and another posters views up. Apologies if that is the case.

I am seen as ultra left wing here ( not hard to do in Australia ), but war is not so black and white as some posters in this thread try to make out.
As i said earlier, civilian deaths are tragic, but sometimes unavoidable for the greater good.
I do not hold may views from just reading history books and watching documentaries.

It is part of my family history, from my Jewish heritage, to the fact that my grandmother worked at Metro Vickers in Trafford Park, where she worked on the Lancaster Bomber.
My grandfather, serving in the RAF, was killed over Burma in 1943, shortly after my father was born, so he and i never got to meet him
My great grandfather, served and was gassed in France during WW1 and never fully recovered.
Plus many uncles and cousins that have served from Korea to Northern Ireland.

Sorry for the long post, but i think it may show why i have no time for those that appear to be apologists for who ever we may be fighting.

 

[Skashion]

The initial bombing of London by the Luffewaffe was probable an accident but feel no pity for the German Guernica Warsaw and Rotterdam and a dozen other places were no accident the Germans for some reason thought they could bomb everyone but nobody could bomb them, fortunately they were badly wrong.The Allied bombing campaign on German kept thousands of men ,aircraft and a massive amount of munitions that could have been deployed in Russia or the west in Germany that alone justify s it in my book and saved many allied lives, this was a war to the finish not some distant skirmish, just imagine the World after a German Victory Do you honestly think we should have had dealings with Hitler and his murdering crowd.

I feel sorry for the deaths of all civilians. I do not shut off my humanity because someone else is not my nationality. I feel pity for the people of Guernica, the people of Warsaw, the people of Rotterdam, the people of London, and the people of Berlin.

The area bombing of Germany was a waste of resources, and morally repugnant. The men and materiel used to bomb Germany would have been more effectively used elsewhere.

 

[SWP's back]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkamZg68jpk[/youtube]

17 minutes if your attention span can last that long. I'm pretty sure I know the people won't be able to concentrate that long....

Well I am now suitably depressed.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkamZg68jpk[/youtube]

17 minutes if your attention span can last that long. I'm pretty sure I know the people won't be able to concentrate that long....

Well I am now suitably depressed.

Why?
There is nothing of any substance in it. Putin's reaction in the next couple of days will be the tell tail. If he so much as hints that Assad may be responsible then he is. Syria is a vital strategic partner for Russia and anything but unconditional support from Putin will indicate that there is proof and the UN security counsel is then duty bound to act in support of international law.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkamZg68jpk[/youtube]

17 minutes if your attention span can last that long. I'm pretty sure I know the people won't be able to concentrate that long....

Well I am now suitably depressed.

Why?
There is nothing of any substance in it. Putin's reaction in the next couple of days will be the tell tail. If he so much as hints that Assad may be responsible then he is. Syria is a vital strategic partner for Russia and anything but unconditional support from Putin will indicate that there is proof and the UN security counsel is then duty bound to act in support of international law.

If there is real proof then China and Russia will have to back down, if there is no conclusive proof the US will have to back down knowing what will happen. Im glad the UK decided to leave this alone no matter what happens

Oh and Wesley Clark is a liar who is just trying to sell books to become rich

 

[Skashion]

If there is real proof then China and Russia will have to back down, if there is no conclusive proof the US will have to back down knowing what will happen. Im glad the UK decided to leave this alone no matter what happens

Oh and Wesley Clark is a liar who is just trying to sell books to become rich

No, they won't.

He's already a rich man.

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

If there is real proof then China and Russia will have to back down, if there is no conclusive proof the US will have to back down knowing what will happen. Im glad the UK decided to leave this alone no matter what happens

Oh and Wesley Clark is a liar who is just trying to sell books to become rich

No, they won't.

He's already a rich man.

Which one wont, all?

He is rich from selling his books.

 

[Skashion]

Which one wont, all?

He is rich from selling his books.

The idea that Russia and China are going to back down.

Dare I ask you for proof of the components of his income?

 

[mindmyp's_n_q's]

Breaking News: Senate Foreign Relations Panel Approves Resolution on Military Action in Syria

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.nytimes.com/?smid=tw-bna" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nytimes.com/?smid=tw-bna</a>

Well that's the fig leaf for the "constitution" then.

The thing I cannot get my head around is why would Assad use chemical weapons?

As far as I can make out.
1. The red line about chemical weapons that Obama stated was made a few months ago and not very recently.
2. A couple of months ago there were reports that Chemical weapons had been used, however after some investigation it was concluded that the rebels "could" have been the ones that used it and therefore the "line" was not crossed and no action taken.
3. Assad was/is winning. He is not like Saddam or Moammar in the sense that they knew they were losing so decided to try to go out in a blaze of "glory".

So why would Assad who is in a winning position and who know's that the only way that the US will get involved in Syria is if he crosses this red line,then go ahead an cross the red line?

On a side note -The vote in the senate is a joke. Kerry basically said before it "the president has the power to go to war and do whatever the chief feels like with or without the approval of congress. For the good of the constitution, it would be better if we had congress's approval, It will make us look stronger"

 

[BoyBlue_1985]

Which one wont, all?

He is rich from selling his books.

The idea that Russia and China are going to back down.

Dare I ask you for proof of the components of his income?

How could Russia back Syria if hard proof showed them attacking civilians. I would think it more than likely they would rather negotiate there piece of the pie. As for China I cannot really see them getting involved in war, not there style unless they want to start following the US economic model.

I cannot provide proof as you would well know but im always wary of a man that spends 40 years killing people and following orders who suddenly becomes anti-war after retirement, do you really think his is anti-war? Or just trying to make money?

 

[SkyBlueUSA]

I oppose my country's intervention in Syria. Sure, Assad has made mistakes, but the rebels aka Al Qaeda are even worse than Assad. What about the rebels use of Sarin gas? Hans Blix, the chief weapons inspector in the lead up to the Iraq war said, that the media has been dead silent about the rebels involvement in all this. If/when Assad goes, it will be a bloodbath against the Shias. Assad is stopping genocide from happening, not causing it.

The US never learns its lesson. We propped up the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980's, only for Bin Laden to take his CIA training and use it against America. Not too keen on letting Al Qaeda take control of another country.