Tackling the issue!? Are we getting a raw deal from the referees?

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This is the Hypothetical Premier League.

http://thehpl.net/wk-26-reports-results/

It tracks all decisions that were wrong on the replays then adjusts goal tallies either way to see what the league would look like if we had video refereeing.

We're second, one point off top.


I doubt that some of the posters will see this as being valid - they believe that we should just " roll with the shit/incompetent decisions " .
 
Shouldn't be relying on referees tbf. We should put games beyond doubt.
The reality is that a game against other top teams is always going to be close. That's when you need the referee to be on top of his game. But Mark Clattenburg is hilariously considered the best referee in the league, despite demonstrating his incompetence constantly, so he gets the big games. And it's the big games where there decisions can decide the result, because the teams are evenly matched. But when was the last time you remember us winning a big game because of a dodgy decision? I remember us getting the odd dodgy decision against some of the lower teams, who we would probably beat anyway, but not against our rivals.

Having said that, I agree in principle. We're where we are because we've not played well enough, not just because of referees.
 
Great post - thanks to the OP for the effort. I feel exactly the same way about this situation.

In terms of conspiracy theories - can anyone deny that so-called 'Financial Fair Play' was brought in specifically because of Manchester City FC?

FFP tells us without any doubt that it is possible for an organisation to come to some kind of opinion and act upon it accordingly to skew the system back in their favour, and of course non of this decision making will be documented or stated overtly: it will just happen. We may indeed be paranoid, but FFP proves they ARE out to get us - it was a handy brake that UEFA actually had to take-off when they found out we were smart enough to outfox them and build a revenue stream anyway and it was going to impact on their favourites. Liverpool FC who ironically supported FFP have now read the runes and seen what it means for them, and their own fans won't let them raise revenue: so they have no way out.

In my opinon MCFC PLC must know exactly what the attitude is out there but know too there is nothing they can do about it and so choose to suck it up.

Another thing that's worrying for me is that the likes of Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne etc must sense it too and wonder maybe why they should put up with this sh*tfest when they could have it all their own way in the sun elsewhere. I also think that De Bruyne's injury against Everton was partly caused by the fact that he knew the referee would let the player come through him from behind and clean him out, and so half of his mind was concentrating on steeling himself for the take-out and he injured himself in the process. Strictly speaking there was no way he could have been fairly tackled from behind and so could have carried on playing the ball instead of shielding. We've seen other players cleaned out like this, especially Aguero and you can see on his face what he is thinking.

As for Clattenburg, the key game to go back to is the Chelsea away game in 2011 and explain the occurence of 3-4 incidents that were essential in order for Chelsea to win it, and all of them were dependent entirely on the opinion of the referee: I will never forget that game, neither will anyone else who sensed the 'agenda' that season. Fast forward to the two Spurs games this season and it is incredible what has happened.
 
I don't think anybody can realistically say that we have been good enough this season, but that isn't the issue is it ?

The thread ia about whether we have had a fair deal from referees, including the disgraceful decision(s) by Clattenburg against Spurs .

Did you think he made the right call(s), and then decide whether they were due to incompetence or bias ?

Forget whether the players and managers are at fault for our position - you are just muddying the water and missing the point of the thread !

Incompetence.
Not missing the point. They point is people are fallible and the governing bodies have it in their gift to resolve through using technology as every other major sport does.
 
Great post - thanks to the OP for the effort. I feel exactly the same way about this situation.

In terms of conspiracy theories - can anyone deny that so-called 'Financial Fair Play' was brought in specifically because of Manchester City FC?

FFP tells us without any doubt that it is possible for an organisation to come to some kind of opinion and act upon it accordingly to skew the system back in their favour, and of course non of this decision making will be documented or stated overtly: it will just happen. We may indeed be paranoid, but FFP proves they ARE out to get us - it was a handy brake that UEFA actually had to take-off when they found out we were smart enough to outfox them and build a revenue stream anyway and it was going to impact on their favourites. Liverpool FC who ironically supported FFP have now read the runes and seen what it means for them, and their own fans won't let them raise revenue: so they have no way out.

In my opinon MCFC PLC must know exactly what the attitude is out there but know too there is nothing they can do about it and so choose to suck it up.

Another thing that's worrying for me is that the likes of Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne etc must sense it too and wonder maybe why they should put up with this sh*tfest when they could have it all their own way in the sun elsewhere. I also think that De Bruyne's injury against Everton was partly caused by the fact that he knew the referee would let the player come through him from behind and clean him out, and so half of his mind was concentrating on steeling himself for the take-out and he injured himself in the process. Strictly speaking there was no way he could have been fairly tackled from behind and so could have carried on playing the ball instead of shielding. We've seen other players cleaned out like this, especially Aguero and you can see on his face what he is thinking.

As for Clattenburg, the key game to go back to is the Chelsea away game in 2011 and explain the occurence of 3-4 incidents that were essential in order for Chelsea to win it, and all of them were dependent entirely on the opinion of the referee: I will never forget that game, neither will anyone else who sensed the 'agenda' that season. Fast forward to the two Spurs games this season and it is incredible what has happened.

Absolutely, excellent post
 
Great post - thanks to the OP for the effort. I feel exactly the same way about this situation.

In terms of conspiracy theories - can anyone deny that so-called 'Financial Fair Play' was brought in specifically because of Manchester City FC?

FFP tells us without any doubt that it is possible for an organisation to come to some kind of opinion and act upon it accordingly to skew the system back in their favour, and of course non of this decision making will be documented or stated overtly: it will just happen. We may indeed be paranoid, but FFP proves they ARE out to get us - it was a handy brake that UEFA actually had to take-off when they found out we were smart enough to outfox them and build a revenue stream anyway and it was going to impact on their favourites. Liverpool FC who ironically supported FFP have now read the runes and seen what it means for them, and their own fans won't let them raise revenue: so they have no way out.

In my opinon MCFC PLC must know exactly what the attitude is out there but know too there is nothing they can do about it and so choose to suck it up.

Another thing that's worrying for me is that the likes of Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne etc must sense it too and wonder maybe why they should put up with this sh*tfest when they could have it all their own way in the sun elsewhere. I also think that De Bruyne's injury against Everton was partly caused by the fact that he knew the referee would let the player come through him from behind and clean him out, and so half of his mind was concentrating on steeling himself for the take-out and he injured himself in the process. Strictly speaking there was no way he could have been fairly tackled from behind and so could have carried on playing the ball instead of shielding. We've seen other players cleaned out like this, especially Aguero and you can see on his face what he is thinking.

As for Clattenburg, the key game to go back to is the Chelsea away game in 2011 and explain the occurence of 3-4 incidents that were essential in order for Chelsea to win it, and all of them were dependent entirely on the opinion of the referee: I will never forget that game, neither will anyone else who sensed the 'agenda' that season. Fast forward to the two Spurs games this season and it is incredible what has happened.
So they couldn't stop us through FFP, now they are trying a more direct method.
 
Incompetence.
Not missing the point. They point is people are fallible and the governing bodies have it in their gift to resolve through using technology as every other major sport does.


Incompetence in some cases, corruption in others .

And you totally missed the point of the thread !
 
Great post - thanks to the OP for the effort. I feel exactly the same way about this situation.

In terms of conspiracy theories - can anyone deny that so-called 'Financial Fair Play' was brought in specifically because of Manchester City FC?

FFP tells us without any doubt that it is possible for an organisation to come to some kind of opinion and act upon it accordingly to skew the system back in their favour, and of course non of this decision making will be documented or stated overtly: it will just happen. We may indeed be paranoid, but FFP proves they ARE out to get us - it was a handy brake that UEFA actually had to take-off when they found out we were smart enough to outfox them and build a revenue stream anyway and it was going to impact on their favourites. Liverpool FC who ironically supported FFP have now read the runes and seen what it means for them, and their own fans won't let them raise revenue: so they have no way out.

In my opinon MCFC PLC must know exactly what the attitude is out there but know too there is nothing they can do about it and so choose to suck it up.

Another thing that's worrying for me is that the likes of Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne etc must sense it too and wonder maybe why they should put up with this sh*tfest when they could have it all their own way in the sun elsewhere. I also think that De Bruyne's injury against Everton was partly caused by the fact that he knew the referee would let the player come through him from behind and clean him out, and so half of his mind was concentrating on steeling himself for the take-out and he injured himself in the process. Strictly speaking there was no way he could have been fairly tackled from behind and so could have carried on playing the ball instead of shielding. We've seen other players cleaned out like this, especially Aguero and you can see on his face what he is thinking.

As for Clattenburg, the key game to go back to is the Chelsea away game in 2011 and explain the occurence of 3-4 incidents that were essential in order for Chelsea to win it, and all of them were dependent entirely on the opinion of the referee: I will never forget that game, neither will anyone else who sensed the 'agenda' that season. Fast forward to the two Spurs games this season and it is incredible what has happened.

You are bang on the money with this assessment.
 
First of all, damn good show by the OP for taking the time and effort to create such a detailed analysis.

From all of that analysis, I think the most worrying thing is how few tackles we win. That must be addressed. Looks like we need a good midfield hardman/destroyer for next season. And a few of the current softarses to get bloody well stuck in and actually earn their £150,000 a week! If bloody journeymen at Leicester can do it why the fuck can't we?
 
twattenberg cheated us and gifted them 3 points so yes we are getting a raw deal from bent refs
 
This is the Hypothetical Premier League.

http://thehpl.net/wk-26-reports-results/

It tracks all decisions that were wrong on the replays then adjusts goal tallies either way to see what the league would look like if we had video refereeing.

We're second, one point off top.

@Damocles excellent find this

Had some spare time this morning so took more time to review the comments in full and they really are quite daming!
What is also interesting is that they captured that many of the major decisions against Manchester City weren't even reviewed on MOTD!
This is more of an issue than most realise as a large percentage of UK based football fans may only use this resource to take it the weekends football

WK. 6
Manchester City 1-2 West Ham (1-2) Referee: Robert Madley It seems a bit harsh on the east Londoners to suggest their second goal cannot stand on the basis it was not a corner kick in the first place, with Kolarov seemingly clearing the ball before it crossed the goal-line. However, as the footage provided is inconclusive we have to stick with the official’s original decision and allow Sakho’s decisive strike to stand, avoiding a barrage of cockney complaints to boot.
The volume of time wasting in this match was absolutely ridiculous and Madeley laughed with the West Ham players as they wasted more and more time. I would love to see the statistics for amount of time ball was live in this match. I would be surprised if the ball was active for more than 40 minutes in that match.
I am going to try and dig out this information and would appreciate help if anyone knows where I can obtain this data?
Interesting article from Howard Hamilton discussing how to compute Ball (not) in play: Effective time in football quality metrics. Exert from article "I define effective time as the total amount of time that the ball is in play in the match, after removing all stoppages due to fouls, ball outs, corners, substitutions, injuries, goals, and so forth. I like this metric because it expresses the amount of flow in a football match. It takes some skill on the part of both teams to have a match with close to 70 minutes of effective playing time, or 40 minutes for that matter if one team is acting as destroyer."
That match was allowed to be destroyed by Madeley and West Ham

WK. 7
Tottenham 4-1 Manchester City (2-0) Referee: Mark Clattenburg. De Bruyne is a foot offside for City’s opener. No goal. Then Walker is about three feet off when crossing the ball for Dier equaliser. So still 0-0. And then Kane is a yard offside for the hosts’ third. Hence the HPL score is only 2-0 to the north Londoners. A really shocking day for the men with the flags.

Wk. 10
Manchester United 0-0 Manchester City (0-0) Referee: Mark Clattenburg So Louis van Gaal needs no convincing. ‘This is why we want technology to help the referee’ is the best way to paraphrase the Dutchman as he complained Manchester United had been robbed of derby day victory at home to neighbours and title favourites City. He was, of course, refereeing to the moment when Herrera goes tumbling under challenge from Sterling but is booked rather than awarded the penalty everyone in Red demanded.

HP: At first watch. Yes. Second watch. Maybe. Third watch: No. The Spaniard clearly moves his leg towards his opponent’s, for no other reason that to make contact and go down. The subtle difference between this and, say, Bojan the week before for Stoke at Swansea, is that the Potters man merely delays a movement, and gets clattered as a result, as opposed to Herrera’s unnatural, unnecessary action that makes contact unavoidable no matter what the defender does, including nothing at all. That’s the HPL call, backed by MoTD 2’s ranting and raving Danny Murphy, who obviously in real life would not be able to be a TV ref where Manchester United is concerned. But for now, we will go with hiss, ours and the majority view. The Sun’s Real Table disagrees!.
No mention of Roja stamp on Navas

Wk12.
Aston Villa 0-0 Manchester City (0-0) Referee: Craig Pawson Sterling takes a dive when Clark’s foot flicks his boot. Great call by the ref not to cave in to the simulating England winger. It is not a trip and not a foul.

Wk 14.
Manchester City 3-1 Southampton (3-1) Referee: Roger East Steve Davis seems to deliberately arm the ball away from goal following a header. Could have been a penalty but as City score from resulting corner to make it 2-0 we need not worry because, of course, even in the hypothetical world of HPL it is quite impossible for City to score twice in this instant. Later at 1-2 down, Southampton have a good shout for penalty when Fernandino handballs but this is ignored by the pundits and makes no odds to the actual result.

Wk 18.
Manchester City 4-1 Sunderland (5-1) Referee: Anthony Taylor Sterling is totally taken out at 0-0. Should have been a penalty – not a yellow. Terrible Boxing Day decision that makes absolutely no difference to the score, save goal difference, but Taylor’s inability to decipher such a blatant foul, and then decree it a nasty piece of simulation from the England man, is worrying.

Wk 20.
Watford 1-2 Manchester City (1-3) Referee: Martin Atkinson Fernandinho appeals for penalty, claiming Capoue impedes him as he goes for a flicked-on corner midway through second half. No chance of it being given in real life because it is Martin Atkinson with the whistle. HPL, though, can address it and point to the spot – even if MOTD fail to review it and the initial, therefore unreliable take of the channel’s commentator, Jonathan Pearce, is ‘no’ penalty.

Wk. 21
Manchester City 0-0 Everton (1-0) Referee: Roger East
Yes, it’s a penalty at end when Stones slides in on Sterling. It’s called momentum and it’s a foul. Pellegrini says: “It was a penalty. It was so clear. It’s unbelievable
. But that’s one action in 90 minutes and I am not speaking about that.” Er..,you just did.

Wk. 23
West Ham 2-2 Manchester City (2-2) Referee: Craig Pawson Collymore says ‘it’s a coming together and not a penalty’ on TalkSPORT when Jenkinson ‘fouls’ Aguero. So that’s Pawson’s first alleged mistake. HPL thinks it is a spot kick. Jenkinson’s hobbling rather than protesting may give the game away. Trouble is Match of the Day do not review. WTF? Demichelis has to be sent off for lunge on Antonio, according to everyone. The latter incident is something the ref and assistant with flag should get right. A TV ref, of course, would ensure justice is done when it matters – in the game being played.

Wk. 26
Manchester City 1-2 Tottenham (1-1) Referee: Mark Clattenburg The game begins with Niall Quinn singing Mark Clattenburg’s praises and inevitably ends with everyone pointing the finger at him over the Spurs penalty that never is. If Rose’s cross it does brush Sterling’s arm after hitting his chest it is still not ‘deliberate’ handball. Henry, Carragher and Quinny all stick the boot into Clattenburg for guessing when he clearly doesn’t know. I’d say one possible line of defence for Clattenburg is a ball bouncing that quickly off different parts of a body can play tricks on the eyes. Anyway, this title showdown ends in stalemate in HPL world.
 
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Some people get embarrassed so easily nowadays.

If we get shit decisions this time next year I'm guessing that we'll be moaning about it.

The point is that if you are playing well and winning (as we hope under Pep) poor decisions wont matter.
 
It's e
...that no professional can be so incompetent.
I'm surprised they don't get even more wrong given the speed, the pressure, the lack of technological support and the vagaries of human perception. Half the time we can't agree on the forum even with infinite slow motion replays.

The bottom line is be is, great teams do great things regardless of refereeing decisions.
 
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